1. #1
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    Default Unconfirmed injuries - mva/mvc

    Greetings,

    We often have jurisdictional MVA/MVC with the Tucson Fire Department - we get these calls either from the city dispatchers who are a PSAP or from the Sheriff who is also a PSAP.

    We respond no matter what but the city will not go if thier are unconfirmed injuries. So what happens most of the time if it ends up being city jurisdiction after we are on scene, we then have to call the city and advise there are injuries and then they respond. We end up providing PT care until they get on scene or go ahead and transport.

    To me it seems like a strange policy - anyone have or heard of a similar policy?

    Stoner
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
    EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTONER
    Greetings,

    We often have jurisdictional MVA/MVC with the Tucson Fire Department -
    What does that mean? jursisdictional MVA/MVC??

  3. #3
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    I don't have anything to reference this to.

    It seems like this system could be justified under some circumstances.

    How fast do you get on scene?
    How long does it take for the city to respond?
    How often are there no injuries?
    How many MVAs are you responding to?
    Do you have medevac support from a chopper?
    Can your department upgrade their medical qualifications to enable you to administer fluids and tube patients?
    Do you have extrication capabilities?

    Lot of veriables.

    I would hope the city could be persuaded to work in the best interest of the public.

    Is this a mutual aid type situation or are you speaking of a seperate system response within the city limits?
    Last edited by Nail200; 11-28-2005 at 10:50 PM.

  4. #4
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    MVA / MVC Motor Vehicle Accident / Crash or Collision? I am familar with MVA and TC (Traffic Collision), haven't heard MVC before.


    As far as the first question, sounds odd to me, most of the places I've worked fire was dispatched on all vehicle accidents unless / until it is reported there are no injuries, if the ambulance gets on scene first and is ready to go before fire arrives they transport unless that would mean leaving other patients uncared for.

    Sounds like a strange policy to me too, the not dispatched seems to be poorly thought out, do they wait for a confirmed fire before responding too? As far as making the ambulance wait for fire to arrive that sounds like someone has a territory issue. Are you on an ALS ambulance and does Tucson run medics? Could it be they want a medic on scene before a BLS ambulance transports?

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    Just sounds like a minor conflict in two policies, neither of which is unreasonable?

    My town, no injuries are usually no FD.

    "Unknown" is at the discretion of the dispatcher depending on how the situation sounds

    Town south of mine is more specific that they want to role on all unknowns.

    Pluses and minuses to both.

    The issue here is the conflict between the different protocols...since if the accident was clearly in your area only you and not Tucson would respond, I don't really see it being a problem if you happen to be in Tucson without them there.

    Matt

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nail200
    I don't have anything to reference this to.

    It seems like this system could be justified under some circumstances.

    How fast do you get on scene?
    How long does it take for the city to respond?
    How often are there no injuries?
    How many MVAs are you responding to?
    Do you have medevac support from a chopper?
    Can your department upgrade their medical qualifications to enable you to administer fluids and tube patients?
    Do you have extrication capabilities?

    Lot of veriables.

    I would hope the city could be persuaded to work in the best interest of the public.

    Is this a mutual aid type situation or are you speaking of a seperate system response within the city limits?
    To expand on some of the points -

    Jurisdictional means the accident happens close to or on the county/city lines. The city runs dual medic on the ambulances and all the engines have extracation I beleive.

    The city can make any of these calls in under 12 minutes for the most part and we can make the calls under 10 minutes.

    We(Rual Metro Fire) run ALS engines with extracation and the ambulances run Medic/EMT.

    This policy not only applies to jurisdictional calls, even if the city has a MVA in the city limits but the caller is a passer by and says" I dont know if anyone is hurt", the city will not dispatch - they will wait until Tucson Police get on scene and determine if there are injuries.

    Tucson is not that big of a city - the call volume for MVA's cant be to dramatic.

    I have always thought this to be a weird policy and wondered if Tucson was following a trend else where.

    Stoner

    * oh and I forgot to mention the CITY bawks when we ask for mutual aid - they really dont like to do it and offer minimal assitance.
    Last edited by SSTONER; 11-29-2005 at 12:00 PM.
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
    EMT-B

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    I'm new (2 years) on my current department and I notice compared to many other departments in other towns our run numbers for MVAs are way down. I've come to the realization that in my Township the police do the dispatching and the fire departments are only called out if its 1) confirmed pin, 2) exceptional amount of fluid, 3) structural damage to telephone poles/structures/etc. where stabilizing is necessary.

    We don't run for the majority of MVAs and I've seen some in town with parts strewn across intersections, fluids and lots of damage and no fire department in town being called out. I think we should be for 3 reasons, 1) we can provide initial PT stabilization if we arrive before the BLS/ALS which is possible many times, though we do not run ALS engines we can still trate for shock and the other basics that first aid training has given us, and 2) disconnect power and ensure a safe scene, and 3) provide traffic safety by blocking intersections or lanes with the BRT.

    What are your thoughts on how to approach this subject with my chief and for him to take it to the dispatchers... I'm afraid this is one of those "this is the way it's always been done" deals.

    PM me if you like instead of posting.
    Last edited by FFTide; 11-29-2005 at 01:55 PM.
    Piscataway Fire Dist #2
    Possumtown V.F.C.

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