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    Thumbs up Ahhhh The Right to Bear Arms!

    Girl, 16, in hospital after botched robbery shooting

    Lindsey Collom
    The Arizona Republic
    Dec. 6, 2005 04:02 PM

    A 16-year-old is in the hospital after being shot during a botched robbery at a video store.

    Police said the teen demanded cash from the register while pointing a small-caliber handgun at a Hollywood Video clerk and three patrons Monday night.

    The Republic is not naming the teen because she is a juvenile. advertisement




    Witnesses told police that one of the customers, who had a concealed weapons permit, fired several rounds when the girl pointed a gun at him. She was struck twice and fled the store at 1950 W. Indian School Road.

    Police said the teen got into a white Honda and was driven to an apartment in the 4300 block of North 19th Avenue, where a resident called 911 for help.

    She was taken to St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center for non-life threatening wounds. On Tuesday, the girl was booked into the jail ward at Maricopa Medical Center on suspicion of armed robbery and four counts of aggravated assault.

    Authorities want to speak with Donnyetta Braxton, 24, who police consider to be an investigative lead. She was last seen driving a white Honda Del Sol. Anyone with information is asked to call 911.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Its nice to hear one for the good guys!
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    Default Heart warming

    A Norco firefighter and at least two other people were hit by gunfire after being caught in the middle of a brawl between rival motorcycle groups at a Christmas charity event Sunday afternoon.

    Firefighter Dain Fish, 28, was shot in the left thigh. He was released from an area hospital Sunday evening, Norco Battalion Chief Frank de Voer said.

    Officials did not identify the other two wounded people or give their conditions except to say the injuries were not life-threatening.

    Witnesses said that other people had been shot, but had fled the scene after the violence. Authorities said there were only three confirmed victims.

    After the 3:30 p.m. shooting, sheriff's deputies cordoned off the parking lot at the Maverick bar on Old Hamner Avenue in Norco and questioned scores of bikers into the night.

    The shooting marred a Christmas toy-collection drive sponsored by the Hessians Motorcycle Club.

    De Voer said the toys that the motorcyclists collected were for the Fire Department's Spark of Love toy drive that provides Christmas presents to needy area children.

    Fire officials and members of various motorcycle clubs said they were appalled at the shooting.

    "This is the one day we shine," said Jeanette Seay, who said her husband is a member of the Hessians. "This is the one day of the year we aren't doing anything wrong," when tough bikers "who never smile show up with a bright pink Barbie doll on their handlebars.

    "It's a shame," Seay said. "We'll probably never get a fire truck to come pick up toys again."

    Violence at a toy drive is unusual, De Voer said.

    "I don't think it's ever happened at any toy drive," the battalion chief said.

    "It's ironic. This is supposed to be a good thing for needy kids."

    Witnesses said members of several motorcycle clubs started delivering dolls, basketballs and other toys in groups of 20 to 30 riders to Norco's Maverick bar on Old Hamner Avenue around noon.

    By 2 p.m., members of the Hells Angels and Mongols had arrived and were exchanging hard looks, witnesses said.

    Firefighters had just finished loading several hundred toys onto a fire truck and stake-bed truck about 3:30 p.m. when two members of the rival groups started a fistfight, authorities said. Several shots were fired.

    "For a time it was like a free-for-all," said Deputy Tim Brause, spokesman for the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.

    Witnesses said many people fled after the gunfire.

    Soon afterward, Corona police spotted a green four-door pickup that matched the description of one involved in the shooting heading south on Interstate 15 at Ontario Avenue. Corona police followed it and stopped it at Cajalco Road just east of Temescal Canyon Road east of the freeway, Sheriff's Sgt. Doug McGrew said.

    All six people in the truck - two women and four men - were held for questioning, McGrew said.

    Sheriff's deputies continued to question more than 100 witnesses detained at Maverick late Sunday and dozens of motorcycles remained off-limits behind yellow crime-scene tape. No one was arrested in connection with the shooting.

    Bikers leaving the bar after being questioned were not allowed to take their motorcycles. They used cell phones to call for rides or walked across the street to use the pay phone at a convenience store.

    Investigators said they were running background checks on everyone who was at the scene of the shooting.

    Several people were arrested for unrelated outstanding warrants, police said.

    This isn't the first violence between the groups.

    Sheriff's officials said the Hells Angels and Mongols have had a simmering feud since 2002 when several members of the clubs were killed in a brawl in Laughlin, Nev.

    Palm Springs officials cancelled the American Heat motorcycle event planned in their city several months later because they feared more violence between the warring gangs.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Ahhhh The Right to Bear Arms!
    What you mean like these?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    Mikey, surely you are not suggesting that there is some sort of relationship to these two stories, are you?

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    Not really related and I am not an anti-gun nut...The shop owner is justified in his actions. But lI do not believe we should be celebrating the fact that a criminal 16 year old girl got shot. As for my post...Someone obviously had the "right to bear arms" and a fellow firefighter paid for it.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    George,

    The difference here is that one person was licensed to own and carry the firearm.

    In the gang shooting article, I am willing to bet that either gang was illegally in possession of their weapons. I am almost willing to put money on that - except that I don't gamble.

    Funny how criminal disregard the law while decent, honest citizens' rights restricted in the hopes of "safety."
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    I am not faulting the owner one iota. I guess I am an old softy when I think about what posseses a teen aged girl to point a gun at someone.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    I am not faulting the owner one iota. I guess I am an old softy when I think about what posseses a teen aged girl to point a gun at someone.
    If the young girl is willing to threaten the lives of innocent people, she is taking the chance of being shot herself. Being a person who has the concealed handgun license, I would have done the same thing. Regardless of why she felt she had to stoop to that level, she threatened someone's life. She deserved what she got and is lucky she is still alive to get her issues straightened out. Celebrate her injury? No. Celebrate that the innocent people weren't hurt? Yup.

    These two stories are totally unrelated and have no impact on each other. A big difference between a 16 yr old girl and the Hell's Angels. I question the relevance of posting that story in this thread. If someone is going to commit a crime, they dont register for a CHL.

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    Default Have either of you actually ever seen anyone shot by a teenager?

    You dont have to tell me ANYTHING about gangbangers. We have plenty around here. I guess my philosophical musings are not in keeping with popular opinion. You want high five each other because of the first incident, thats your right. I never said the shooter did anything wrong. In fact he probably saved his own life. But, a fellow firefighter was shot delivering toys for kids. That kind of takes the rah rah out of guns in my opinion. I guess I will leave my ponderings of a less violent America to myself.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Mikey, I could not possibly agree with you more. There is nothing to celebrate about a young girl-somebody's daughter-having such little regard for her own life that she is willing to toss it away. I would also submit to you that there is equally nothing to celebrate when a young boy does it. It is a tragic waste of a human life.

    What we can celebrate is that we live in a country where, in some places, a citizen has a legal means to defend him/herself when faced with a deadly force situation. I happen to believe that the violent crime rate would go way down if all good citizens were permitted to carry firearms on their person. It would probably make the bad guy think twice before he walked into a Stop and Rob with a handgun when he could be faced with a facefull of weapons pointed at his empty head.

    Legal gun ownership and responsible use should be promoted. Illegal gun possession and use should be aggressively punished.

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    MIKEY - Old but true... Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

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    I do not high five anyone. One reaps what they sew. Live by the gun, die by the gun. Add all the cleches that you want to.


    RESPONSIBLE firearms owners do not get involved in gang fights (there are always a few who do) but they are criminals, they are going to use whatever they want.

    So I guess if a firefighter gets killed by a drunk drive it should take all of the "rah, rah" out of cars for me too.

    I know that it is hyperbole, but come on.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Default Rah Rah

    Well since I AM a responsible gun owner and an American, I will excercise my right to offer commentary as I see fit.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    No one ever said you couldn't exercise your rights to speak.

    The two conflicting articles just don't make sense, one from a law abiding citizen and another about two gangs of consistent law breakers that most likely had a bunch of criminals in their midst.

    Regardless of who was shot, it doesn't change anything or make the crime/incident any less distressing.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    I guess I was the only one struck by the irony of it. I saw this thread around the same time I read the article about the Brother from Cali.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Mikey.

    From the original piece

    non-life threatening wounds
    Methinks someone needs a little practice with their TOY.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    I guess I was the only one struck by the irony of it. I saw this thread around the same time I read the article about the Brother from Cali.
    I understand your point. Pretty sad that these criminals only harm other people.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    I am not faulting the owner one iota. I guess I am an old softy when I think about what posseses a teen aged girl to point a gun at someone.
    Drugs - often these types of crimes where the offender is that young or younger involves the need to obtain more drugs.

    I posted the story not to celebrate a 16 year old girl being shot but to show the differnce between responsible ownership and owning a gun for the purpose of commiting crimes.

    The story doesnt say, however, I wonder if the person who shot her did not shoot to kill on purpose or if the under the situation was not able to shoot as accurately as he would have if he were on a shooting range.

    Do I feel sorry for the girl - yes - she was lucky she wasnt killed. Maybe this incident will change her view on the world and the role she plays in it.
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
    EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTONER
    Drugs - often these types of crimes where the offender is that young or younger involves the need to obtain more drugs.

    I posted the story not to celebrate a 16 year old girl being shot but to show the differnce between responsible ownership and owning a gun for the purpose of commiting crimes.

    The story doesnt say, however, I wonder if the person who shot her did not shoot to kill on purpose or if the under the situation was not able to shoot as accurately as he would have if he were on a shooting range.

    Do I feel sorry for the girl - yes - she was lucky she wasnt killed. Maybe this incident will change her view on the world and the role she plays in it.
    When I went through the classes to obtain my CHL, the State Trooper who was teaching it said always shoot to kill. If you think that there is a need to fire your weapon, it has to be bad enough to kill them. If you shoot someone and they die, they can't testify against you. If you place your shots perfectly and simply stop them, they can always turn it around (with the help of lawyer scumbags) and sue you. This is also the reason why here in Texas, they don't tell you how well you do on the shooting portion of the test. They simply tell you pass/fail. That way it can never be twisted around if you do well testing. The lawyer cant say you shoot very well, why did you have to kill him when you could have disabled him.

    Right or wrong with these statements (from the trooper, not me) I agree with at least one part... DANG LAWYERS SCREW EVERYTHING UP.

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    Rob,

    Good points. I remember in Recruit Training at Parris Island and at Camp Lejeune being told to never shoot to maim. Never, and I mean never, give your aggressor a chance to retaliate.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    "One shot, one kill, kill em all and let God sort 'em out"

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    If you engage your weapon, it better be because you are willing to destroy your target. That's why they call it deadly force. Shark's right. Properly placed rounds should eliminate your aggressor ability to engage you.

    Btw, Shark....someone sent me this, and I thought you'd like it. "Nothin' says lovin' like an M-60 hummin'!!"
    http://www.defensereview.com/water/M60E4.wmv
    Steve Gallagher
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    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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    Quote Originally Posted by RadRob
    When I went through the classes to obtain my CHL, the State Trooper who was teaching it said always shoot to kill. If you think that there is a need to fire your weapon, it has to be bad enough to kill them. If you shoot someone and they die, they can't testify against you. If you place your shots perfectly and simply stop them, they can always turn it around (with the help of lawyer scumbags) and sue you. This is also the reason why here in Texas, they don't tell you how well you do on the shooting portion of the test. They simply tell you pass/fail. That way it can never be twisted around if you do well testing. The lawyer cant say you shoot very well, why did you have to kill him when you could have disabled him.

    Right or wrong with these statements (from the trooper, not me) I agree with at least one part... DANG LAWYERS SCREW EVERYTHING UP.
    And he was right. If you fire the weapon, it will always, 100% of the time, be considered deadly force. Any other use of the weapon is wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamer
    Btw, Shark....someone sent me this, and I thought you'd like it. "Nothin' says lovin' like an M-60 hummin'!!"
    http://www.defensereview.com/water/M60E4.wmv
    While the PIG is nice, I have always been a fan of "Ma Deuce." Gotta love a weapon that is effective at a mile and will still take out a vehicle. And it is almost 70 years old and is basically unchanged.

    However, I shall send this link to some friends who shall truly enjoy it. Just gives me warm and fuzzies. That pile of brass and links was just cool. (OK so it doesn't take much to get my juices going.)
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    How about this one. From last month a grandmother shoots an intruder in Arlington, TX. Grandmother woke up, went to take the dog out for a walk and scumbag (excuse me "alleged" scumbag) was in the house. She pulled the wepon, guy refused to stay on the ground so she shot him once. Dumbass crawled outside the house with Grandma following him. He continues to be beligerant and then went to jump at her from a lying position and she shot him again. Great tape. I can't help but laugh at the grandmother. Listen to her in the background - one lady that I am never going to mess with.

    http://www.dfw.com/multimedia/dfw/ne...all/index.html

    http://www.nbc5i.com/news/5289996/detail.html

    If this had happened in Mass. or some other state she would be on trial for her actions. Sean Hannity said this, and I agree (though I do not worship Hannity.)
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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