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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    As far as him “yanking his willie” on camera, that is really not the issue here. What the issue really is is the violation of departmental rules, with regard to web sites allowed, even on a personal computer, while at work; a rule being enforced upon all members involved.
    No, the issue here is the sexual harrassment charge. Using a PC is simply a means by which he "created a workplace that is intimidating, hostile or offensive." She didn't tell the HR dept or the chief that he was using the PC in an illegal fashion. She filed sexual harrassment. A by-product of this case may be an investigation of how the PC's are used.


  2. #22
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    We must ALL rember what is a joke to a bunch of MALE FFs may not be funny to a FEMALE FF. We must look over our sholder and see if she is watching
    Stay Safe ~ The Dragon Still Bites!

  3. #23
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadRob
    No, the issue here is the sexual harrassment charge. Using a PC is simply a means by which he "created a workplace that is intimidating, hostile or offensive." She didn't tell the HR dept or the chief that he was using the PC in an illegal fashion. She filed sexual harrassment. A by-product of this case may be an investigation of how the PC's are used.

    That may very well be the case, however, they are under departmental charges for violations of the Internet policy.
    The whole sexual harassment thing is being handled outside of the department.
    Again though, I have only heard this through the rumor mill, more will come to light as the investigation is made public.
    Either way, it’s a public relations nightmare, locally.

  4. #24
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    In essence, they had no control over the broadcast. It's like watching a NSACAR race and hearing Dale Jr. say the S word. You have no control over it.

    You mean other than turning it off, or other than putting your pants back on?

  5. #25
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    After all, they weren't on a sex site, they were in a private Chat session.
    There really isn’t a lot of history that has been put into national news; the video chat took place on an adult site. Pornographic, or other “questionable” sites are strictly prohibited; the final decision as to whether it’s an “allowable” site is up to the discretion of the department administration.
    Also, yes, the “hands-on” fellow was in a different engine house, several miles away from the “viewing stand”, however; all of this could have been avoided had his pants stayed on, or his web-cam at home.

  6. #26
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default Willy Wanker

    Hey Man, just keeping it real... A little "joke" didnt seem too funny when it was directed at YOU Rob.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  7. #27
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    6-10 guys, 24 hours, and a slow day= things we should be sent home for. A joke gone bad and jobs are going to be lost. Everyone here that works 24's can name some things that should have him in the bigs guys office

  8. #28
    Forum Member Smoke20286's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45













    I know a significant more about this incident than do you. All parties involved are guilty of a lack of judgment; it is an extremely unfortunate, and regrettable incident, all the way around. More than just a few careers will end over this.
    I’m sorry though, you will never convince me this is a harmless prank.





    I live with these politics every day, even beyond the “sexual harassment card”. It doesn’t justify what these guy’s did though. The modern day work place dictates that you need to be aware, and considerate of those around you, otherwise you may end up in trouble, and when you do “find trouble”, you may lose time, or even your job.
    There is a good one, a stupid prank costing you your career.
    I bet you'd find it a whole lot funnier if it wasn't in your back yard. To the best of my knowledge no one has yet suffered anymore then embarrassment, Suspension with pay can be reversed,any lost seniority can be restored.

    This was a stupid thoughtless silly prank that unfortunately became publicized because someone over reacted. You must face two incontrovertible facts:

    1: Pranks like this are pulled, and will continue to be pulled in fire stations world wide regularly, they just don't all become public.

    2: Its damn funny man, lighten up
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  9. #29
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke20286
    I bet you'd find it a whole lot funnier if it wasn't in your back yard. To the best of my knowledge no one has yet suffered anymore then embarrassment
    Maybe I would find it funnier, except that it is in my backyard, which gives me a fairly up close and personal view of the whole thing.
    The “best of your” knowledge isn’t good enough here, unless a marriage breaking up is all part of the joke in your world, or if that falls under your “embarrassment only” stance.
    We’ll find out fairly quick on how many could lose their job.

    This was a stupid thoughtless silly prank that unfortunately became publicized because someone over reacted. You must face two incontrovertible facts:

    1: Pranks like this are pulled, and will continue to be pulled in fire stations world wide regularly, they just don't all become public.

    2: Its damn funny man, lighten up
    You’re absolutely right; pranks happen on a daily basis while at work, this one was a first for me though. It would be funny too, except for what has happened since, and the impact that is still awaiting several of the individuals involved.
    It stopped being funny when it became public, and investigated; it becomes even less funny each and every day.
    I don’t possibly see how you can find any of this funny, unless you enjoy watching the careers of some people you have worked with be flushed down the toilet, all over a little bit of firehouse humor.
    Over reaction or not, with regard to the city and department is irrelevant, at this point at least one person will more than likely need to find a new career, and a new family; several others are more than likely out of work as well.
    I’m not disputing that the origins of the incident was a prank, however it is different now. I don’t need to lighten up, and my funny bone is not broken, it’s just not funny, it is indeed very serious for those involved.

  10. #30
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    Hold the F*ck on there Francis.

    Nothing here states he is guilty.
    Nothing here mentions that this woman might be trying to get even with him.
    What kind of fireman or brother are you? F*cking hairbag.

    I saw you burning puppies alive in the firehouse oven.... Now does that make it true?

    I know multiple stories about my department that have had "facts" manipulated, mischaracterized, changed and even made up in the news by the press in recent years.

    Wait to find out if he is convicted before lowering the axe.

    BMA

    FTM-PTB
    Amen brother!! We have had a "sex scandal" over the fact that an officer asked a female firefighter (I use that term to describe assigment, not capability) to help wash dishes after a firehouse meal. She later confessed that it "made her mad" and the best way to get him in trouble was to accuse him of sexual misconduct.

    Sweet woman, huh?
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  11. #31
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    Yes it's everybody elses fault,God forbid this guy take responsablity for his own actions. I guess the City isn't paying him to be a Professional, even though he is an Officer. Common sense goes a long why in this job, obviously he has non.

  12. #32
    Forum Member Smoke20286's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    Maybe I would find it funnier, except that it is in my backyard, which gives me a fairly up close and personal view of the whole thing.
    The “best of your” knowledge isn’t good enough here, unless a marriage breaking up is all part of the joke in your world, or if that falls under your “embarrassment only” stance.
    We’ll find out fairly quick on how many could lose their job.



    You’re absolutely right; pranks happen on a daily basis while at work, this one was a first for me though. It would be funny too, except for what has happened since, and the impact that is still awaiting several of the individuals involved.
    It stopped being funny when it became public, and investigated; it becomes even less funny each and every day.
    I don’t possibly see how you can find any of this funny, unless you enjoy watching the careers of some people you have worked with be flushed down the toilet, all over a little bit of firehouse humor.
    Over reaction or not, with regard to the city and department is irrelevant, at this point at least one person will more than likely need to find a new career, and a new family; several others are more than likely out of work as well.
    I’m not disputing that the origins of the incident was a prank, however it is different now. I don’t need to lighten up, and my funny bone is not broken, it’s just not funny, it is indeed very serious for those involved.
    Firstly excuse my limited knowledge of your area, I presumed Brew City meant Milwaukee.

    Secondly marriages break up every day it can be a matter of great importance, or an excuse for a good party, it depends on the individual.

    Thirdly, I have to say that this story leaving aside the fact it became public and people were penalized continues to be humorous

    P.S. There may well be repercussions for those involved, however if someone loses their job then the union involved would seem to be pretty lax. I have seen people survive much worse incidents in the past.
    Last edited by Smoke20286; 12-23-2005 at 08:04 PM.
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  13. #33
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    Firstly excuse my limited knowledge of your area, I presumed Brew City meant Milwaukee.
    You’re correct; it is and does.


    Thirdly, I have to say that this story leaving aside the fact it became public and people were penalized continues to be humorous
    My attitude has been this all along, but surely you can imagine how things have changed once this ball started rolling. Any prank can be funny, until something happens because of the prank that is serious.
    I know fireworks are a favorite here, there is almost nothing more fun than lighting off a pack of fire crackers while a guy is in the shower; at least until his hearing is damaged permanently.
    My only point has been, and continues to be the same; once the incident was plugged into the system and people’s lives were permanently affected, it stopped being funny to me.
    Now, you might ask if I’m pushing for a change in engine house life; well, quite frankly I’m not. I believe in accepting your own responsibility for your own actions, and I happen to enjoy firehouse life quite a bit as is. I sometimes feel as though I’ve never worked a day in my life.
    Please don’t take my position as justifying any of the actions of anybody involved. The system is at work; we’ll have to see how it plays out in the end.



    P.S. There may well be repercussions for those involved, however if someone loses their job then the union involved would seem to be pretty lax. I have seen people survive much worse incidents in the past.
    Well that is kind of a ridiculous position to take, considering how little you actually do know about all of the circumstances in the case, and considering the investigation is still underway.
    I don’t know exactly how things work in Canada, your laws maybe different than here, maybe your union is much stronger there than it is here, I really don’t know. What I do know though, is that the city/administration can do pretty much anything they wish to, it is then up to the union to stop whatever action is taken. The union then must take court action, paying for attorneys, setting up a defense, and so on.
    If in fact member (s) are fired, they will still be out of work, and have their futures in question until the time that they are/are not reinstated.
    It has nothing to do with a “lax” union in the event a member is fired. I’ve seen more than one member fired and, even with the union aggressively fighting the dismissal, a court can still uphold the city’s position.


    Here is another thing that has been chafing me; what’s with the title of this thread? I noticed the post date was quite a while ago, essentially when the first tidbits were leaking out.

    What a moron.
    Last edited by jasper45; 12-23-2005 at 09:00 PM.

  14. #34
    Forum Member CommDiva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse
    OK, so there are policies concerning what WEB sites you can visit. IRC Chat sessions are not WEB sites. SO perhaps the broadcaster did nothing wrong. He assumed this was going to a private place, not a truck bay. On the other end, the guys in the truck bay probably started out innocently. One thing lead to another until they are at the point of the dirty deed. While they may have encouraged this act, they had no idea that it would really happen. In essence, they had no control over the broadcast. It's like watching a NSACAR race and hearing Dale Jr. say the S word. You have no control over it.
    While the firefighters at the other station had no control over the broadcast, the other guy DID....what the h*ll was he thinking??? Even tho' he thought he was chatting with a woman, HE WAS AT WORK!!! Just how stupid could he be? He was gooned, big time, but he certainly set himself up for it!
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    Hey Man, just keeping it real... A little "joke" didnt seem too funny when it was directed at YOU Rob.
    I have thick skin, and yes I thought it was funny when you called me on it (I didn't realize my wording could get turned around). Guess I should re-read posts before posting! Pranks and jokes are a part of my everyday life. I work with a bunch of guys who have contests to see who got who better. I think it is just as funny when it happens to me. I just say "that was a good one guys," and start plotting the next move. Some of the pranks are bad enough to get us in trouble, but most of the time, we quit before it gets to that point.

  16. #36
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    Ok its easy....Your the Fire Chief....how would you handle it.....

    Go off hallf Cocked and fire him and have it come back in you face.

    Place Him/Her on admin leave and wait unitll the investigation is over with and then take the proper action.

    Now remember being a Fire Chief your actions can't be based on your personal opinion or driven by what others say or might say. It all falls on the proper procedures outlined in POSH and EEO.

    Now the outcome might already be out, but go back to the start and then how would you handle it.

    Don't hang a man until he has been found guilty. Once found guilty then

  17. #37
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    Sometimes I just don't understand people. Most employers make it abundantly clear what behavior will and won't be tolerated in the firehouse. And yet, people continue to play outrageous pranks and engage in behavior that they wouldn't want their family, friends or bosses to know about. And then they're shocked when the hammer comes down on them.

    When I read these stories, all I can think is, it's not your clubhouse. It's your J-O-B and a GOVERNMENT WORKPLACE at that. WTF were you thinking?????? It's not that I'm offended. Some of the stuff that happens is admittedly funny. I'm just shocked, since I came from a private sector job where you'd be fired faster than you could snap your fingers for such antics.

    It's like the ff from brew city said. It's not funny when someone's job and marriage are suddenly on the line. Firefighters are under special scrutiny. Each one of us should always be thinking "would I like to see this thing I'm about to do in the paper?" If the answer is no, don't do it.
    Last edited by rookiemove; 12-24-2005 at 10:17 PM.

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