1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Borderstate
    Posts
    899

    Angry Cleveland Rocks!

    Nasty Altercation Between Cleveland Firefighters And Man

    A 29-year-old Strongsville man says an out-of-control Cleveland firefighter punched out four of his front teeth last week at the scene of a car wreck.

    Marc Huff rushed to Dead Man's Curve Thursday where his girlfriend's car was crunched and spun around. His girlfriend was not seriously hurt.

    But Huff left the scene in a police car, under arrest for misconduct in an emergency. He pleaded not guilty to the misde meanor charge Tuesday.

    And he filed complaints with the Fire Department and the city against firefighters.

    A fire investigator's complaint, filed in Cleveland Municipal Court, states that Huff's car nearly clipped one of the firefighters as he raced to the scene. It also states that Huff initially refused to leave the scene and then nearly drove over firefighters again.

    Then the 5-foot-9, 130-pound IRS tax collector started a physical altercation with several firefighters, according to fire Detective Joseph Stevens' report.

    Cleveland police, who took Huff to jail, don't mention that altercation in their report. The police report says Huff was "grabbed and subdued" by firemen because he was disorderly.

    Neither report makes mention of Huff's teeth being knocked from his mouth.

    A Fire Department spokesman and a spokesperson for the public safety department said they were not sure the arresting fire detectives had made a report, and if so, whether they could release it.

    "Like all complaints, we are taking this very seriously," Fire Department spokesman Larry Gray said.

    Huff said when he tried to leave the scene, one of the firefighters slammed his helmet on the hood of Huff's car and reached through the window to punch him in the mouth. When Huff exited the car, one firefighter shoved him, another put him in a chokehold, a third forced his hands behind his back, and they slammed him against his car, he said.

    "I was spitting out blood and saying, ?Please get off my neck. You?re going to break my neck," Huff says.

    Huff said one firefighter replied, "I hope I break your (expletive) neck."

    Shante Jones, the daughter of Huff's girlfriend, also raced to the accident scene. Jones, her mother and a friend had been at The Q watching a tennis match between Venus and Serena Williams and were headed home in separate cars, Jones said.

    Firefighters cursed at Huff and told him to get away from the scene, she said. She saw seven or eight men surround Huff, who was bleeding from the mouth. An arson detective took pictures of Huff's mouth and tried to help him locate his teeth, Jones said.

    "I think the whole thing was blown out of proportion," she said. "Everyone was panicking. He wasn't trying to hurt anyone, and there?s no reason they had to hurt him."

    The police report does not name the firefighters involved in the altercation. Police Lt. Thomas Stacho said police don't have additional information on the arrest because the Fire Department arrested Huff. At the Justice Center, Huff was inexplicably booked as a felony offender, even though he was charged with a misdemeanor.

    After Huff made bond and was released from jail - almost 15 hours later - he went to a hospital in Willoughby, where he was treated for tooth extraction, neck pain and physical assault, according to discharge papers from the emergency room.

    Huff also visited a dentist for some temporary partial dentures that have left him with a lisp, he said.

    "I thought public officials should be held to a higher standard," Huff said. "It's sad that they acted that way. The whole situation sucks."

    To reach this Plain Dealer reporter: rdissell@plaind.com, 216-999-4121

    If you cant run with the big dogs ,don't get off the porch.

    Their is a good chance too lose your teeth in Kentucky anytime you almost run down one of our own!Sorry about this guys luck ,but a poor attitude after a event like this will almost always produce a A** WHIPPING.
    Always a day late and a dollar short!

    Hillbilly Irish!

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Nevada, TX, U-S-A!!
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coldfront
    Their is a good chance too lose your teeth in Kentucky anytime you almost run down one of our own!Sorry about this guys luck ,but a poor attitude after a event like this will almost always produce a A** WHIPPING.
    Are you kidding me? We are expected to act responsibly. In uniform, I don't agree with that attitude at all. In a bar, out of uniform... That's a different story. I have been known to throw down a few times, but would never dod it in uniform. Ridiculous.

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    465

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coldfront
    If you cant run with the big dogs ,don't get off the porch.

    Their is a good chance too lose your teeth in Kentucky anytime you almost run down one of our own!Sorry about this guys luck ,but a poor attitude after a event like this will almost always produce a A** WHIPPING.
    Yeah. Nice attitude. Just the kind of guy I want to work with. Good luck with this one pal.

  4. #4
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coldfront
    If you cant run with the big dogs ,don't get off the porch.

    Their is a good chance too lose your teeth in Kentucky anytime you almost run down one of our own!Sorry about this guys luck ,but a poor attitude after a event like this will almost always produce a A** WHIPPING.
    Surely one of the most well-thought-out responses to a news event that I have ever seen.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Now in Victoria, BC. I'm from beautiful Jasper Alberta in the heart of the Can. Rockies - will always be an Albertan at heart!
    Posts
    6,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187
    Surely one of the most well-thought-out responses to a news event that I have ever seen.
    The title of the thread was my first clue Not only condoning such "alleged" behaviour by the firefighters, but embracing it whole-heartedly!
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SamsonFCDES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,708

    Default

    I think it all sounds fishy.

    The truth is likely somewhere in the middle. The guy was being a dink, the FFs probly over steped a bit.

    Never know unless you were there when it happened.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Borderstate
    Posts
    899

    Angry Run Rabbit Run!

    1.Yes ,I might be a Redneck!

    2. I have scrapped a fellow responder from the Highway after a ill temper motorize ran him down.To make a mistake is human.To make a mistake then run your trap about usually leads to bad things.I wish we all could turn the other cheek!

    3.A car is deadly weapon.If you want to use that vehicle to run me down then expect a forceful response.
    Last edited by coldfront; 12-08-2005 at 11:18 PM.
    Always a day late and a dollar short!

    Hillbilly Irish!

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Are you kidding me? We are expected to act responsibly. In uniform, I don't agree with that attitude at all. In a bar, out of uniform... That's a different story. I have been known to throw down a few times, but would never dod it in uniform. Ridiculous.
    If someone almost runs one of us (FD, PD or EMS) over (or twice in this situation) acts disorderly and is combative, he needs to be restrained before he hurts anyone else. I know I haven't been trained in the proper police techniques but I can make a good faith effort to prevent anyone from getting hurt. I can assure you if that happened here two teeth would be the least of his worries after the PD gets ahold of him.

    I say we wait to hear the full story before all the saints on this job claim they wouldn't do such a thing.

    FTM-PTB

  9. #9
    Disillusioned Subscriber
    Steamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    If someone almost runs one of us (FD, PD or EMS) over (or twice in this situation) acts disorderly and is combative, he needs to be restrained before he hurts anyone else. I know I haven't been trained in the proper police techniques but I can make a good faith effort to prevent anyone from getting hurt. I can assure you if that happened here two teeth would be the least of his worries after the PD gets ahold of him.

    I say we wait to hear the full story before all the saints on this job claim they wouldn't do such a thing.

    FTM-PTB
    I'm with Fred on this one. My guess is that the truth lies somewhere in between.
    Steve Gallagher
    IACOJ BOT
    ----------------------------
    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    956

    Default

    It says the FD arrested him...so I'm assuming that the FD has police powers or gives those powers to their FF's. If that's the case, then I would expect them to restrain the offender like a regular cop would. If the FF's faught with the offender, then it would be easy to have it happen in the struggle. I see it plenty.
    FF/NREMT-B

    FTM-PTB!!

    Brass does not equal brains.

    Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.

  11. #11
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Talking Yeah.........

    I Know, this is a scary thought, but I agree with FFFred. We have some difficult times here when dealing with people, such as an accident screwing up traffic. In a neighboring jurisdiction, 2 medics were inside a wrecked car, packaging a patient for removal, when another car struck the one they were working in. You can only take so much stuff from those that we are sworn to protect, so sometimes we take action a bit forcefully. On one occasion, a man stepped out in front of our Ambulance as it was approaching an accident. They stopped to avoid hitting him, and yelled at him to get out of the road, he replied that they should go home, that there were enough Ambulances already there. I was behind the ambulance and ran up to see what the problem was. Turns out to be a drunk who we had to physically remove from the road. Stupid stuff happens and you have to deal with it. My wife, nice lady, sometimes has to help with traffic control. And she doesn't put up with nothing either, she has extingushed a lit flare on a car's hood.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    FHandz15's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    St. Louis County, MO
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Anyone notice that since everyone has a cell phone, every emotionally distraught boyfriend/girlfriend/mother/father/friend/dog...etc now shows up on EVERY MVA no matter what time of day, and usually they are there before you or right after to help "mix" things up and help get the pt. you just spent 5 minutes calming down all upset again.......

    Also, anyone ever have someone in an accident have to call their lawyer AND their insurance agent prior to deciding if they want to go to the ER? I have.....


    I'd do the same thing Cleveland did, I'd just pull his shirt over his head first to tie up his arms like they do in the NHL.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Just about and hour and a half ago I was driving on I-75 near my house where there was a semi vs. car. It is snowing like crazy and we have approx. 3-4" snow on the ground and alot of ice. As we were passing the accident at a greatly reduced speed 2 semi's and a couple of cars fly by at about 55-65 MPH with no concern for the responders. What is going through the head's of these people?

    A couple of years ago our dept. along with another dept. responded to an MVA at roughly 0500(est.) while extricating the victims, a van slid into the wreck and injured numerous responders. Thank God that no one died or was too seriously hurt.

    http://www.rossfordfire.com/033103mva.html
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  14. #14
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs down We Fix That..............

    Quote Originally Posted by FHandz15
    Anyone notice that since everyone has a cell phone, every emotionally distraught boyfriend/girlfriend/mother/father/friend/dog...etc now shows up on EVERY MVA no matter what time of day, and usually they are there before you or right after to help "mix" things up and help get the pt. you just spent 5 minutes calming down all upset again.......

    Also, anyone ever have someone in an accident have to call their lawyer AND their insurance agent prior to deciding if they want to go to the ER? I have.....


    I'd do the same thing Cleveland did, I'd just pull his shirt over his head first to tie up his arms like they do in the NHL.
    I absolutely do not have a cell phone problem on jobs that I am in charge of. I order people to turn off the phone. Period. If they don't move fast enough, I turn the phone off for them. End of story.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods
    I absolutely do not have a cell phone problem on jobs that I am in charge of. I order people to turn off the phone. Period. If they don't move fast enough, I turn the phone off for them. End of story.

    Too Funny. That would be interesting to see, the IC taking the phone from a person on the scene.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Nevada, TX, U-S-A!!
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    If someone almost runs one of us (FD, PD or EMS) over (or twice in this situation) acts disorderly and is combative, he needs to be restrained before he hurts anyone else. I know I haven't been trained in the proper police techniques but I can make a good faith effort to prevent anyone from getting hurt. I can assure you if that happened here two teeth would be the least of his worries after the PD gets ahold of him.

    I say we wait to hear the full story before all the saints on this job claim they wouldn't do such a thing.

    FTM-PTB
    Well, I guess I am a saint(actually, far from it) because I have been hit, kicked, spit on, bumped with a car, etc... and no one ever lost their teeth (from me anyway, the cops may have a different story). A** whippings have no place here in our service. We are here to help people, even when we think they least deserve it or when they are being total idiots. I would love to knock the hell out of a guy that drives drunk with his kids in the car, but that would hurt us and the case against him. It is ALWAYS better not to take offensive actions in this situation. So whatever the "full story" is, it does not warrant such behavior.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    North Wisconsin
    Posts
    165

    Unhappy Cleveland Rockthssss...

    Huff also visited a dentist for some temporary partial dentures that have left him with a lisp, he said.

    "I thought public officials should be held to a higher standard," Huff said. "It's sad that they acted that way. The whole situation sucks."


    Actually, I believe based on the above information, his last statement should have read "The whole thituation thucks!!"

    I feel for the FF's involved in this, after a near miss you know the andreladin starts running really high.. and with this mouthy mutt giving the whole I gotta be with my g/f thing.. I know where they came from. Wouldn't go so far as to condone it, but I understand.

    Sad thing is, you know this guy will be filing suit, and you know that with the right attorney, he'll win massive damages.

    Out of interest, I wonder if he identified himself as an IRS agent before they decided to forever make it difficult for him to eat corn on the cob??

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    The way I learned about citizen's arrest is that if you physically prevent someone from leaving when he/she wants to,then legally you have arrested them.
    Because we "mere" citizens are not police academy trained in the Miranda Act warning,we don't have to give them and really shouldn't due to the risk of opening ourselves up to giving the wrong information and making more trouble for the real cops.
    If you have to make a citizen's arrest,just make sure that they don't leave,you don't have to search them but keep an eye on them in case they want to divest themselves(that's West Kentucky for"get rid of")anything that will incriminate them or could be used to hurt you and/or other firefighters.As one big guy said to a possible DUI suspect,"Sit there like a good boy or ELSE."while he held a halligan bar.
    Like with someone you think deliberately started a fire,don't lead them in a conversation about what happened but try to remember what they say before the police arrive.If you have a chief's buggy with a dash camera,even better.That is just as admissible in court as is all those dashcam cop show entries are.

    Quote Originally Posted by pfd4life
    It says the FD arrested him...so I'm assuming that the FD has police powers or gives those powers to their FF's. If that's the case, then I would expect them to restrain the offender like a regular cop would. If the FF's faught with the offender, then it would be easy to have it happen in the struggle. I see it plenty.
    Last edited by doughesson; 12-09-2005 at 05:50 PM.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    Pretty much anything BUT the most important job they had at handperating a 3,000lb motor vehicle.
    I ride a bike everywhere I go and used to drive a wheelchair bus for a taxi company.I am still amazed at people that think they can multitask while driving and end up weaving all over the place unaware of how close they came to hitting a bike rider,other vehicle or lamppost.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer
    As we were passing the accident at a greatly reduced speed 2 semi's and a couple of cars fly by at about 55-65 MPH with no concern for the responders. What is going through the head's of these people?
    http://www.rossfordfire.com/033103mva.html

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    I'm with FFFred and hwoods on tis one (I can see them both cringing from here). There is only so much stupidity you should put up with before "restraining" the ignorant SOB.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    snowball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Just North of South Central
    Posts
    2,740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by coldfront
    Shante Jones, the daughter of Huff's girlfriend, also raced to the accident scene.
    Firefighters cursed at Huff and told him to get away from the scene, she said.
    "I think the whole thing was blown out of proportion," she said. "Everyone was panicking. .
    And herein lies the problem. The girlfriend wasn't seriously hurt. But you still can't erase the panic that someone who is not in our profession feels for their loved one. If the guy was so overcome with emotion that he created a hazard for the crew working the scene, then I can see why he got his teeth knocked in, or out as the report indicates. We all know how chaotic MVA's can be with traffic control, LEO's investigation, EMS with patient stabilazation, and Fire overseeing the whole thing. It gets' frustrating sometimes, and family members on scene only compound the the frustration. I agree with FHandz15, family on scene only complicates the job at handz.
    IAFF

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Division 24
    Posts
    4,360

    Default Im a peaceful man

    Until you put me or my crew in danger because of your anger,stupidity or violence. Then its on. End of story.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Swanton Fire Dept. Swanton, Vermont
    Posts
    476

    Default Multiple issues here....

    Lets think about these points for a minute:

    1) Without being there you have only second third hand information at best. Most reporters are not exactly in tune with reality when it comes to emergency scenes. They do know that turmoil sells papers, gets ratings, etc etc. Everyone has an opinion, (we all have in this forum) and they may be uninformed on all the details.

    2) I know of nobody who would not take almost getting hit by a car personnally. FF / LEO/ EMS are no different, and should not be held to a standard that the public thinks they can almost kill them and get cookies and milk in response.

    The Vermont State Police did a PSA about not almost hitting the Police officer when you drive by them when they have someone stopped. During the "controlled" filming of the example an un-controlled / planned motorhome almost took out the officer for real!


    3) FF / LEO/ EMS are all human. They may do extraordinary tasks but they have the same issues every other human being has. (Fear of almost getting run over by a car. ...)

    4) People who are in FF / LEO/ EMS will see family members show up and be very upset about the situation their loved one is in. It is not our fault we are only there to make things better. We do our best and hope for the best. They are not in control of the situation and usually don't do well in the stressful situation that is at hand. We need to have a tolerance to this but not let the overall Life Safety mission to be compromised.

    5) We live in a society that has tried to not be responsible for their actions. I almost ran you over but I was upset, I was talking on my cell phone, I was..... fifty other reasons so you can't expect me to admit I did ANYTHING wrong. We collectively need to step up and say, no you did something that is / was wrong. Don't make excuses.

    I am not saying that even one part of what I have put applies to this situation because I was not there and do not know if it does. I have made these observations from things I have witnessed, like almost getting run over directing traffic myself.

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    Smoke20286's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    873

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RadRob
    Well, I guess I am a saint(actually, far from it) because I have been hit, kicked, spit on, bumped with a car, etc...
    I guess you are a saint, if someone assaults you , you have a legal right to defend yourself, even on duty.

    If anyone does any of the above to me, the least they can expect is to go to jail.
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Nevada, TX, U-S-A!!
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke20286
    I guess you are a saint, if someone assaults you , you have a legal right to defend yourself, even on duty.

    If anyone does any of the above to me, the least they can expect is to go to jail.
    We put ourselves in this situation because of the line of work we are in. There is a problem if everytime someone "assaults" you, you kick their teeth in. Assault is when someone even touches your arm when you don't want them to. Is that a license to kick the crap out of them? I don't think so. People do things they normally wouldn't do when upset or concerned for the friend/family member, and we must remember they may not be acting rational. Smashing their face is only going to cause even more problems on the scene. Restraining someone is very different then knocking someone's teeth down their throat. And yes, I do feel we are held to a higher standard than others because it is our jobs to help others, not cause more pain and controversy at an accident scene.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register