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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Default FULL PPE for everybody...no exceptions!

    Pump operators often do not get into full PPE, especially in very hot weather.

    If you are ever tempted to leave off some PPE, including Hood and such, even if you are operating the apparatus, think of this!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A Bridger Canyon Fire Fighter is the latest to provide testament to the value of wearing your Protective Equipment even while involved with seemingly non-hazardous fire scene activity. The attached pictures tell the story.

    Thanks to John C, TO, Central Valley Fire I have attached two pictures of a water tender that caught on fire while fighting a structure fire in Bridger Canyon near Bozeman on Dec. 6, 2006. I was on the scene and the pictures barely do justice. The fire fighter was standing at the pump panel, pump engaged, supplying a 1 ¾” handline. A fire ball erupted from underneath the pump panel area and completely enveloped the fire fighter. He had on full PPE and his hood was covering most of his face due to the negative 20 degree temperature. He was completely uninjured. The fire was extinguished using a handline. They say it was a broken fuel line, possibly spilling diesel fuel on to the exhaust. John C.




    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.


  2. #2
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    I know the pics. are a split second in time but how did the helmet turn out crisp but the trim on the coat looks like new? Maybe he changed? Just curious. It would suck to loose a truck from something like that.

  3. #3
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default PPE when driving an engine

    I will get right on that one.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSHANK42
    I know the pics. are a split second in time but how did the helmet turn out crisp but the trim on the coat looks like new? Maybe he changed? Just curious. It would suck to loose a truck from something like that.
    In the first picture it looks like his helmet was sitting on the step when the fireball erupted.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    I will get right on that one.
    Good to hear! Way to lead by example!
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  6. #6
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    I think that helmet belongs to the guy on top of the truck looking in the comp.

  7. #7
    Forum Member MEck51's Avatar
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    I agree with mikey. You won't be seeing me wear full ppe while pumping unless there are condtions that would deem it. A break in the fuel line in the truck is a freak accident. Seeing that will not make me any more likely to wear gear while pumping on a 100 degreee day. What next wear trunout gear while working on my hotrod because something can happen there, not likely. I understand your thought process with this, but to me it is overkill. Suppose I'm drafting and fall in while wearing all my gear, more chances to drown. It is about risk anaylisis, and to me if you are in a safe operating area, out of an IDLH- collapse- or smoke filled area, you should not need your gear. You can't wear it everywhere.

  8. #8
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default Lead by example?

    Lets take a poll.... Who wears full turnout gear while driving and operating a pump on a REGULAR basis ? Ie: SOP'S . Put me down as a NO.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  9. #9
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamsonFCDES
    In the first picture it looks like his helmet was sitting on the step when the fireball erupted.
    So in fact, He WASNT WEARING full gear.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  10. #10
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    Lets take a poll.... Who wears full turnout gear while driving and operating a pump on a REGULAR basis ? Ie: SOP'S . Put me down as a NO.
    It is an option for the apparatus drivers/operators, as per our SOG's. They are required to keep it at hand should their assignment be changed by the IC.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    So in fact, He WASNT WEARING full gear.
    Ahhh the picture doesn't lie. Should the operator wear a proximity suit on air everytime he is pumping because this might happen again?

    Honestly this is a poor reason for a chauffuer to wear his gear all the time.

    FTM-PTB

  12. #12
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Like Captain Gonzos department, ours requires the engineer to have gear on the rig. If our engine responds on a mutual aid fire and the pump is not going to be used, the engineer fights fire. I have also worn it during days like today. Cold and snowy.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    So in fact, He WASNT WEARING full gear.
    I dont know, I am speculating.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    Ahhh the picture doesn't lie. Should the operator wear a proximity suit on air everytime he is pumping because this might happen again?

    Honestly this is a poor reason for a chauffuer to wear his gear all the time.

    FTM-PTB

    The picture doesnt tell us if its his helmet, if it was placed there after the fireball, etc...its all speculation.

    Poor reason? Well, I there are 2 VERY GOOD reasons in this example to wear full PPE.

    1 Its DAMN cold.
    2 Fireballs exploding from you apparatus.

    Those are GOOD reasons for PPE, especially a hood.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    The info brief with the pictures says the FF was wearing full PPE.

    In any case I must applaud the forum, excellent policy! Lets us encourge our brothers and sisters NOT to wear their life saveing PPE!

    Truely Impressive!
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Give me a break. Shall we wear full PPE while cooking dinner for the crew too? After all, the casserole could spill over and flare up in the oven.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebFire
    Give me a break. Shall we wear full PPE while cooking dinner for the crew too? After all, the casserole could spill over and flare up in the oven.
    Excellent SOP!



    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  18. #18
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Posted by SamsonFCDES

    The info brief with the pictures says the FF was wearing full PPE.

    In any case I must applaud the forum, excellent policy! Lets us encourge our brothers and sisters NOT to wear their life saveing PPE!

    Truely Impressive!

    Posted by Webfire
    Give me a break. Shall we wear full PPE while cooking dinner for the crew too? After all, the casserole could spill over and flare up in the oven.
    Don't forget wearing it at the BBQ grill when doing steaks, burgers or barkers..flareup have been known to occur there too!

    Maybe we should wear it when we go to the bathroom, too...some prankster might try to light a fart!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    Posted by SamsonFCDES

    Don't forget wearing it at the BBQ grill when doing steaks, burgers or barkers..flareup have been known to occur there too!

    Maybe we should wear it when we go to the bathroom, too...some prankster might try to light a fart!
    How about you just go to the bathroom in you PPE. Safer that way!
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  20. #20
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    Sorry Sampson -- this isn't meant as a personal attack

    Poor reason? Well, I there are 2 VERY GOOD reasons in this example to wear full PPE.

    1 Its DAMN cold.
    2 Fireballs exploding from you apparatus.


    If we're teaching people in the fire service to size-up situations using thought processes like spontaneous apparatus combustion = mandatory PPE, we're doomed because they're obviously not learning proper risk v. benefit analysis.

    Wear your gear because it's cold? Fine.

    Heck, even joke about it tounge-in-cheek about it being another reason to gear up.

    Is it a reasonable arguement to say that because fire trucks have caught on fire, you need to wear your gear when operating them? No, that's not reasonable.

    And reason -- the ability to think through a situation -- is the most important thing we have.

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