1. #26
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    FyredUp's Avatar
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    My volly FD replaced BOTH 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 with 2 inch. Like I stated earlier we flow from 160 to 290 with the 2 inch. Low pressure Elkhart nozzle and a 1 1/4 inch slug. If we can flow 290 out to 300 feet on preconnects how is this not a good replacement for 2 1/2?

    I am not saying everyone shgould use it, but it makes me shake my head in wonder when people who have never used it poo poo it's use. We run short during the day and using 2 inch makes sure that minimum staffing can flow maximum water and still be mobile.

    If 2 inch handlines can't get it we pull a 3 inch line with a portable deluge.

    It works for us and really that's all that matters to us.

    FyredUp

  2. #27
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    Fyredup,

    I have used 2" lines. I am curious at what you run your nozzle pressure at to get the 290gpm thrown 300'.

    I am not doubting your statements at all, since I have never done it. I am just curious what the pressures are. How does the stream perform since the 1 1/4" tip is defying the "orifice shouldn't exceed 1/2 the diameter of the line" rule?

    When you state an "Elkhart low pressure" are you saying that you also have a fog nozzle on a separate line?

    Again, not doubting you, just curious on your ops!
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

    Nate DeMarse
    Co-Owner, Brotherhood Instructors, LLC.
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  3. #28
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    Nate,
    I might be able to answer some of your questions. We run 2" line in our 200' crosslays and rear 300' line. The nozzle we use is an Elkhart Chief. It is a breakapart nozzle. The fog tip is a "low pressure" flowing 200gpm at 75psi nozzle pressure. If you want more water you spin off the fog tip and are left with a smoothbore "slug" tip. We also run 1 1/4" tip on our nozzles. The stream is not as tight due to the tip being so short. It does break up alittle more compared to a longer smoothbore tip.
    The pressures we run are 120 psi pdp for our 200' line and 140psi pdp for our 300' line. This gives us roughly 220-230gpm out of the smoothbore. While testing these nozzles we were getting 250+ at 160psi pdp so it could be quite possiable to get more but you pdp might be alittle high. We keep ours alittle lower due to staffing. It still gives us the GPM we were looking for.
    Just a side note on preconnects. We use them all the time but lately we have been comming up short on our second line. We have alot of 3 deckers, and pulling past for the truck puts even our 200' preconnect out of reach of the upper floors. What is a good rule of thumb for estimating stretches from dead loads? We are trying to teach our guys here but all they have ever used is preconnects. It is something about change that is really scaring them.

  4. #29
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    Very quickly and I will expand more later:

    As a Control man I always start at the fire and count back to the Engine. If the fire is blowing out of the back of a 3 story frame that measures 20x60, I would count two lengths for the fire floor (since it is deeper than 50' and you have to account for turns.

    From there, count 1 length per floor for the stairs unless there is a well-hole in the stairway. If there is a well-hole present, 1 length will cover 5 floors.

    Then 1 length back to the entrance door, and however many lengths to the pumper.

    It sounds like a lot to remember, but it really is easy once you get used to it. For instance, if the fire is on the top floor of the same 3 Story frame building measuring 20x60, you automatically know pulling up that you need 5 lengths (2-fire floor, 1 per floor = 2, 1 to hit the door) to cover the building and all you have to do is add whatever you need to get to the rig.

    I will try to find some of my previous "Control FF" posts and repost them here. If it is a weird building, you can pull one for good luck too.

    More coming later!
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

    Nate DeMarse
    Co-Owner, Brotherhood Instructors, LLC.
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  5. #30
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    Nate,

    We use the 200 gpm at 75 psi combo tip on the 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We have the nozzle pressure at 40 psi for a flow of around 290 gpm. The pump pressure is about 240 for a 300 foot preconnect. We flow 200 out of the combo tip for a pump pressure of close to 170 for a 300 foot preconnect.

    Sure the EP is a little higher but still well within the capacity of the pump.

    We also underpump the line to flow around 160 at roughly 55 psi to the combo tip.

    This has worked well for us. With minimum daytime staffing it allows max flows with a line manueverable by 2 or 3 FF's.

    I am not knocking the 2 1/2, or the 1 3/4, but regardless of what works elsewhere, this works here. My advice to the naysayers is try it. How about this? Instead of a full stretch of 2 inch for you 2 1/2 guys, replace the last 100 feet with 2 inch for something that is easier to move at the same flow. For the FDNY, 2 inch is fully capable of flowing the 265 you flow out of your 1 1/8 inch tips.

    FyredUp

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