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  1. #21
    Forum Member Tillerman17's Avatar
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    Why use 2 in. hose with 1 1/2 couplings when you could be using 2 1/2 with 2 1/2 couplings and an 1 1/8 smoothbore nozzle? More bang for the buck, so to speak.
    Never trust a smiling dog.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tillerman17
    Why use 2 in. hose with 1 1/2 couplings when you could be using 2 1/2 with 2 1/2 couplings and an 1 1/8 smoothbore nozzle? More bang for the buck, so to speak.
    Mobility? Speed of deploy? Manpower?

  3. #23
    Forum Member Tillerman17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quint1officer
    Mobility? Speed of deploy? Manpower?
    Nah, not buying that answer. 2 1/2 is no harder to deploy or use than 2 in. this is just a common excuse not to use the big line and usually ends with the fire kicking your butt. Manpower is another bad reason not to use the right tool. If manpower is an issue, it's going to be an issue even when you deploy a smaller line. The results are still the same.
    Never trust a smiling dog.
    The uniform you're given is free, but it comes with a history. Do the right thing when you're in it.
    PTB, EGH, FTM.

  4. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber cdemarse's Avatar
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    I also love to hear people say they dont pull 2.5 because of manpower yet they manage to pull 3- 1-3/4 lines

    I have also used 2" before but prefer the 1-3/4 / 2.5 set up
    "Train as if your life depends on it"
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  5. #25
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    Default Just a follow up

    I see some of the most recent posts mention either use a 1.75" or go straight to the 2.5" as if the 2" is ment to replace the 2.5". I gave some thought to that idea for our FD at one point but quickly determined that even thought 2" is a great addition to our arsenal of weapons it is not ment to replace the 2.5". I am a firm believer in hit it hard and fast which usually means big water fast. I won't switch the topic to blitz attack and the method of (deck gun or 2.5" etc etc) but I will say this about the 2.5" vs 2": The 2.5" is going to be heavier, more combersome and less mauneverable then the 2" with equal staffing. That point cannot be argued. Now that does not mean a well trained and physically fit crew of 2-3 FF cannot place a 2.5" into operation in an effective manner just that it will be more difficult to operate and advance then the 2" line. From my perspective I like the 2.5" as an exterior blitz attack line for areas I cannot reach with the deck gun. For example, take a 2-3 car attached garage heavily involved on arrival. If I cannot position my first due to effectively use its deck gun for a blitz attack then I will use a 2.5" to knock the bulk of the fire down form the exterior and perhaps advance a bit into the garage. Once that line as knocked the bulk of the fire down I would continue into the interior to complete the remainder of extinguishment with either a 1.75" or 2" depending on the particular circumstances of the incident at hand such as size of building and amount of extension etc etc. So to sum it up again I do not consider 2" a replacement to 2.5" but just another tool in the box which provides me we a few more options. The secret to success is choosing the right tool for the job at hand and this is where, it seems to me, many make mistakes by choosing to small a line. Big fire requires big water thus requires big attack line.

  6. #26
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    My volly FD replaced BOTH 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 with 2 inch. Like I stated earlier we flow from 160 to 290 with the 2 inch. Low pressure Elkhart nozzle and a 1 1/4 inch slug. If we can flow 290 out to 300 feet on preconnects how is this not a good replacement for 2 1/2?

    I am not saying everyone shgould use it, but it makes me shake my head in wonder when people who have never used it poo poo it's use. We run short during the day and using 2 inch makes sure that minimum staffing can flow maximum water and still be mobile.

    If 2 inch handlines can't get it we pull a 3 inch line with a portable deluge.

    It works for us and really that's all that matters to us.

    FyredUp

  7. #27
    Forum Member NDeMarse's Avatar
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    Fyredup,

    I have used 2" lines. I am curious at what you run your nozzle pressure at to get the 290gpm thrown 300'.

    I am not doubting your statements at all, since I have never done it. I am just curious what the pressures are. How does the stream perform since the 1 1/4" tip is defying the "orifice shouldn't exceed 1/2 the diameter of the line" rule?

    When you state an "Elkhart low pressure" are you saying that you also have a fog nozzle on a separate line?

    Again, not doubting you, just curious on your ops!
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

    Nate DeMarse
    Co-Owner, Brotherhood Instructors, LLC.
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  8. #28
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    Nate,
    I might be able to answer some of your questions. We run 2" line in our 200' crosslays and rear 300' line. The nozzle we use is an Elkhart Chief. It is a breakapart nozzle. The fog tip is a "low pressure" flowing 200gpm at 75psi nozzle pressure. If you want more water you spin off the fog tip and are left with a smoothbore "slug" tip. We also run 1 1/4" tip on our nozzles. The stream is not as tight due to the tip being so short. It does break up alittle more compared to a longer smoothbore tip.
    The pressures we run are 120 psi pdp for our 200' line and 140psi pdp for our 300' line. This gives us roughly 220-230gpm out of the smoothbore. While testing these nozzles we were getting 250+ at 160psi pdp so it could be quite possiable to get more but you pdp might be alittle high. We keep ours alittle lower due to staffing. It still gives us the GPM we were looking for.
    Just a side note on preconnects. We use them all the time but lately we have been comming up short on our second line. We have alot of 3 deckers, and pulling past for the truck puts even our 200' preconnect out of reach of the upper floors. What is a good rule of thumb for estimating stretches from dead loads? We are trying to teach our guys here but all they have ever used is preconnects. It is something about change that is really scaring them.

  9. #29
    Forum Member NDeMarse's Avatar
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    Very quickly and I will expand more later:

    As a Control man I always start at the fire and count back to the Engine. If the fire is blowing out of the back of a 3 story frame that measures 20x60, I would count two lengths for the fire floor (since it is deeper than 50' and you have to account for turns.

    From there, count 1 length per floor for the stairs unless there is a well-hole in the stairway. If there is a well-hole present, 1 length will cover 5 floors.

    Then 1 length back to the entrance door, and however many lengths to the pumper.

    It sounds like a lot to remember, but it really is easy once you get used to it. For instance, if the fire is on the top floor of the same 3 Story frame building measuring 20x60, you automatically know pulling up that you need 5 lengths (2-fire floor, 1 per floor = 2, 1 to hit the door) to cover the building and all you have to do is add whatever you need to get to the rig.

    I will try to find some of my previous "Control FF" posts and repost them here. If it is a weird building, you can pull one for good luck too.

    More coming later!
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

    Nate DeMarse
    Co-Owner, Brotherhood Instructors, LLC.
    http://brotherhoodinstructors.com
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  10. #30
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Nate,

    We use the 200 gpm at 75 psi combo tip on the 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We have the nozzle pressure at 40 psi for a flow of around 290 gpm. The pump pressure is about 240 for a 300 foot preconnect. We flow 200 out of the combo tip for a pump pressure of close to 170 for a 300 foot preconnect.

    Sure the EP is a little higher but still well within the capacity of the pump.

    We also underpump the line to flow around 160 at roughly 55 psi to the combo tip.

    This has worked well for us. With minimum daytime staffing it allows max flows with a line manueverable by 2 or 3 FF's.

    I am not knocking the 2 1/2, or the 1 3/4, but regardless of what works elsewhere, this works here. My advice to the naysayers is try it. How about this? Instead of a full stretch of 2 inch for you 2 1/2 guys, replace the last 100 feet with 2 inch for something that is easier to move at the same flow. For the FDNY, 2 inch is fully capable of flowing the 265 you flow out of your 1 1/8 inch tips.

    FyredUp

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