She's Back

[CaptainS]

>>>>>> U.S. MOTHER APPEALS TO IRISH


A leading member of the American Anti-war movement and a mother
of a US soldier killed in Iraq has called on the Dublin
government to stop being "complicit in war crimes."

Cindy Sheehan, who was speaking in Dublin yesterday before a
meeting with Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern, called on the Irish
people to stop allowing US military planes using Shannon Airport.

The airport in south County Clare has been used by the US
military as an airbase for several years, in continuing
contradiction of Ireland's stated policy of military neutrality.

"I am here to rally the people of Ireland to resist their
government in any way they can from being complicit in this and
being accomplices in the crimes my government is committing in
Iraq.

"Not only as people from Ireland but as human beings. What we are
allowing our countries to do is wrong.

"I am here to join with the Irish peace movement to call a halt
to what is going on (at Shannon)."

Sheehan lead the protests against the war at President George
Bush's ranch in Texas during the summer.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs Dermot Ahern told the Dublin
parliament this week that United States has given Ireland
"repeated, clear and explicit assurances" that no prisoners had
been transferred through Shannon Airport, in south County Clare.

"My son was one of the 240,000 troops that went through Shannon.
The last letter we got from him he talked about stopping in
Shannon, he talked about buying a soda and the amount of euros it
cost and how many euros he got back from the soda machine.

"He talked about meeting a woman who spotted his name Sheehan who
saw it on his uniform. And she talked to him about his Irish name
and Ireland and the family history."

Cindy Sheehan's husband's family is of Irish descent from Cork.

"That meeting in Shannon was very important to him, it was so
important that he put it in his journal and he put it in the last
letter he wrote us.

"But he never posted it, because it came with his things when he
came back. Because he was in Iraq only five days before he was
killed."

"This is Casey here on the badge that I am wearing. This is the
face of somebody who came through your country. The people who
work in Shannon I wonder if they think, 'I wonder if this soldier
will come back through?'

"Or will this young person go back home in a box? Or will this
young person walk off a plane and then come home in a wheel
chair?"

Ms Sheehan said Ireland was "letting humanity down" by not
inspecting what she described as the "torture planes" being
operated by CIA through Shannon.

"Ireland has every right to inspect those planes they are landing
on Irish soil. Ireland has been a great friend to the United
States for many years but Ireland is not a satellite of America
you are an independent state and you have to act independently.

"I think President Regan said 'Trust but verify' and that is what
you have to do you have to verify. And if there is nothing to
hide then our government should not want to hide it."

Ms Sheehan later praised the minister for allowing a meeting with
her.

"For one thing, if your government is in the pocket of our
government then it was a brave move. Because nobody from my
government will meet me," Ms Sheehan said.

"One of the things your minister told me is that Shannon is being
used because that is the way it's always been, even during the
Vietnam war. I said: 'Great! You allow them use your airport for
one immoral illegal war and now you allow them use it for
another'," she said.

IRISH REPUBLICAN NEWS
http://republican-news.org

I guess she will never go away

---------------------------------------------------------------------

[DaSharkie]

While I respect her right to free speech, I wish she would shut up. Thankfully I can watch the news and read a newspaper without seeing her name or face in it every single day.

Of course there was her book signing that no one showed up for. I laughed at that. Boy did I laugh.

[RyanEMVFD]

Maybe she'll lose her passport or customs won't let her through.

[RadRob]

How ironic would it be if she were taken hostage while abroad by the same terrorists we are fighting? Think we should refuse to take action because war is bad? Wonder if she would change her tune then.

[ThNozzleman]

How ironic would it be if she were taken hostage while abroad by the same terrorists we are fighting? Think we should refuse to take action because war is bad? Wonder if she would change her tune then.

Keep wishing, sicko.

[ThNozzleman]

Of course there was her book signing that no one showed up for. I laughed at that. Boy did I laugh.

Not entirely accurate. Just an attempt to discredit the woman further by using shoddy reporting, which was picked up by every conservative site and spread as some kind of political bellwether. A small event, on Thanksgiving weekend, in the middle of nowhere...what did you expect? Thousands? Just the usual right-wing misleading smear tactics that they used when they went after Kerry. No big surprise, there.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1001572310

[SSTONER]

Not entirely accurate. Just an attempt to discredit the woman further by using shoddy reporting, which was picked up by every conservative site and spread as some kind of political bellwether. A small event, on Thanksgiving weekend, in the middle of nowhere...what did you expect? Thousands? Just the usual right-wing misleading smear tactics that they used when they went after Kerry. No big surprise, there.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1001572310

Noone discredited her - she did that all by herself. Why is she in Ireland? - because nobody can take her seriously any longer here.

[DaSharkie]

Not entirely accurate. Just an attempt to discredit the woman further by using shoddy reporting, which was picked up by every conservative site and spread as some kind of political bellwether. A small event, on Thanksgiving weekend, in the middle of nowhere...what did you expect? Thousands? Just the usual right-wing misleading smear tactics that they used when they went after Kerry. No big surprise, there.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1001572310

While I understand your point Noz, I have to wonder what in the heck she and her publisher were thinking? For the same reasons that you list, why would you invite the press to a book signing, on Thanksgiving weekend, in the middle of nowhere, at a "small event?"

Then you turn around and bitch about the media (which you invited) for taking and publishing a picture of you sitting in an empty tent? I mean come on. What in the heck did you expect folks? With such a "high profile" thing, you would think that her publisher would want to control media reporting on it a bit more.

As for the Right Wing web sites picking it up, again, what did she expect? Nothing different than pictures of Bush, Rice, Cheney, or anyone else working their way around.

As for me, I first saw it on MSNBC on-line. Still laughed. It's just funny the way so many have drooled over her very existence and then she is shown to be no better than the average joe shmoe out there working every day. Some days are good, some days are bad.

I'd still wish she would just go away. Unlike others nothing bad to happen, just for her to shut up and go away.

[ChicagoFF]

Keep wishing, sicko.

He didn't say he was wishing for it to happen and why are you so big on name calling?

[RadRob]

DASHARK and NOZ - I never said I wished it would happen. I would never want anything to happen to her, just think it would be ironic. But hey, what do we expect from noz? He reads everything and then twists it to fit what he wants.

[DaSharkie]

Wasn't necessarily meaning you. Some would wish her harm or ill will.

Let her exercise her free speech, her and her supporters shouldn't complain when others exercise theirs. It is a two way street (though some think otherwise.)

[ThNozzleman]

For the same reasons that you list, why would you invite the press to a book signing, on Thanksgiving weekend, in the middle of nowhere, at a "small event?"

Because, unlike the picture commonly painted by the conservatives, she genuinely cares about her cause. She is not in this for any other reason than she truly cares about our people dying for a cause that is not worthy of their sacrifice.

Then you turn around and bitch about the media (which you invited) for taking and publishing a picture of you sitting in an empty tent? I mean come on. What in the heck did you expect folks? With such a "high profile" thing, you would think that her publisher would want to control media reporting on it a bit more.

That isn't her issue. The issue is that the photos were used out of context to push the premise that she's "washed up" or that America has had enough of her. She answered these absurd ideas, just as any of you would have.

I'd still wish she would just go away. Unlike others nothing bad to happen, just for her to shut up and go away.

Why? Obviously, the rightwingers portraying her as some selfserving bitch who hates our military are wrong. As far as I'm concerned, she can keep up the good fight, regardless of how many wish she would "just go away."
I have a feeling that the conservatives are starting to wish a LOT of things would just go away, these days.

He didn't say he was wishing for it to happen and why are you so big on name calling?

Me? Name-calling? Heh...you sure haven't been around here very long. After the way I've been treated by several members of this forum, I really don't care, any more. Besides, his post was dripping with the ol' "that would server her right" line of thinking. Just the general viciousness shown towards this woman by the conservative mouthpieces is enough to convince me that most would laugh hsyterically if anything like this were to happen to her.
But, hey...maybe I'm wrong. If I am, my apologies.

[ThNozzleman]

Noone discredited her - she did that all by herself. Why is she in Ireland? - because nobody can take her seriously any longer here.

A perfect example. You think nobody in America takes her position seriously? Really? Man, do I have a bridge you need...

[RadRob]

A perfect example. You think nobody in America takes her position seriously? Really? Man, do I have a bridge you need...

How many people agree with her? If there are soooo many, where are they? And to say "She is not in this for any other reason than she truly cares about our people dying for a cause that is not worthy of their sacrifice" really dishonors the troops who have fallen by saying they died for nothing. People from all the wars where "we shouldn't have been there" (like Vietnam) get offended when someone says that all the lives lost were for nothing.

[ThNozzleman]

How many people agree with her? If there are soooo many, where are they? And to say "She is not in this for any other reason than she truly cares about our people dying for a cause that is not worthy of their sacrifice" really dishonors the troops who have fallen by saying they died for nothing. People from all the wars where "we shouldn't have been there" (like Vietnam) get offended when someone says that all the lives lost were for nothing.

That's exactly why you shouldn't start stupid, needless wars in the first place...especially when you attempt to justify it with half-truths, outright lies, and scare tactics. There was no pressing need to invade Iraq. Just what do you think she's in it for? Just to get attention? To sell a book? Come on...you guys need to adjust your pattern of thinking. She lost her son in a needless war that didn't need to be fought. Her speaking out dishonors no one, except the fools that started this mess.

[RadRob]

That's exactly why you shouldn't start stupid, needless wars in the first place...especially when you attempt to justify it with half-truths, outright lies, and scare tactics. There was no pressing need to invade Iraq. Just what do you think she's in it for? Just to get attention? To sell a book? Come on...you guys need to adjust your pattern of thinking. She lost her son in a needless war that didn't need to be fought. Her speaking out dishonors no one, except the fools that started this mess.

Try asking someone who has been to war and not just someone here posting about it. Ask someone who lost a friend or someone close to them on the battlefield of one of these "needless" wars. Ask them if it dishonors the fallen brother for dying needlessly. What do you feel about firefighters dying from a meth lab explosion? There is no need to put out one of those fires. It is pointless. They will simply set up another one somewhere else. I guess those firefighters died needlessly huh? Maybe we should start protesting the fire service for putting our brothers at risk doing something they believe in.

No need to invade Iraq? Man, I wish I was in your wonderful world where you aren't threatened by people fostering terrorist camps, funding terrorists, and helping terrorists by sheltering them. Those reasons alone are reason enough to invade, let alone the fact that there have been massive graves uncovered that the "innocent" Iraqi leader filled up. But hey, we should mind our business and let the man continue the genocide that region has experienced. You're right, what do we care about what happens over there, it's not bothering us.

Is ignorance really bliss?

[RadRob]

Quick question for you Nozz... How do you feel about prayer in the firehouse? Not really relavant, just wonder about your take on the issue.

[DaSharkie]

Because, unlike the picture commonly painted by the conservatives, she genuinely cares about her cause. She is not in this for any other reason than she truly cares about our people dying for a cause that is not worthy of their sacrifice.

Never said she didn't care. I am just sick of the press going all gaga over her. Someone is paying for her message and her living expenses and it isn't her - Michael Moore, Jesse Jackson, Moveon.org, and others. Now she has taken on speaking engagements FOR A FEE against the war.

That isn't her issue. The issue is that the photos were used out of context to push the premise that she's "washed up" or that America has had enough of her. She answered these absurd ideas, just as any of you would have.

The photos were used out of context by people other than the original printers. So she is mad at the AP for printing a picture that was used by someone else for ill will. Kind of like blaming a firearm manufacturer for some gang banger thug using a stolen firearm to commit a murder.

Why? Obviously, the rightwingers portraying her as some selfserving bitch who hates our military are wrong. As far as I'm concerned, she can keep up the good fight, regardless of how many wish she would "just go away."
I have a feeling that the conservatives are starting to wish a LOT of things would just go away, these days.

This is not about the right wingers, this about our own thoughts. I do not think that she is self serving.

I find many of her actions objectionable and I don't care for it. It is her right to say what she thinks, but I think that it harms the troops abroad - just my feeling.

I also think that she is allowing herself to be used by greater powers for a greater cause than herself, which cheapens her statements and her broader message.

Some of the statements that she has made do make me question her respect for the men and women in uniform, which I have posted before.

Just how I feel.

[ThNozzleman]

Try asking someone who has been to war and not just someone here posting about it. Ask someone who lost a friend or someone close to them on the battlefield of one of these "needless" wars. Ask them if it dishonors the fallen brother for dying needlessly.

Oh, I have. The guys I know fully understand that starting a war in which thousands will die is very serious, and should not be done because one group of chickenhawk profiteers and imperialists want to.

What do you feel about firefighters dying from a meth lab explosion? There is no need to put out one of those fires. It is pointless.

If you know there is a meth lab, let 'er burn. The trouble is that our government KNEW Iraq was no "imminent threat." Big difference. And they misled the people about it, too.

No need to invade Iraq? Man, I wish I was in your wonderful world where you aren't threatened by people fostering terrorist camps, funding terrorists, and helping terrorists by sheltering them. Those reasons alone are reason enough to invade, let alone the fact that there have been massive graves uncovered that the "innocent" Iraqi leader filled up. But hey, we should mind our business and let the man continue the genocide that region has experienced. You're right, what do we care about what happens over there, it's not bothering us.

Again, we do not run around invading every nation with corrupt and violent goverments...only those with massive amounts of oil. We've been through this a million times. Iraq was zero threat to us. The threats you speak of could easily be pulled off by a handful of idiots located anywhere in the world.

Is ignorance really bliss?

I don't know; you tell me.
DaSharkie, I agree with you for the most part. However, the practices you speak of are found on every side of every argument. If people are willing to pay fees to support her, then that's their right. It happens all the time. I don't see the problem there. In and of itself, it doesn't take anything from her message in my opinion. She is obviously not in it to make money.

I also think that she is allowing herself to be used by greater powers for a greater cause than herself, which cheapens her statements and her broader message.

The only way for this argument to hold water is if it is found that these "greater powers" you speak of also do not believe in their own message, and are in it for a buck, or for attention. There are far easier ways for most of these people (who are already wealthy, anyhow) to make a dollar. I tend to see more of this activety from the right than the left, though. You can't watch Fox News without somebody hawking a book. There's a difference between Sheehan and the vast majority of these guys...she actually has lost something. The crap spread by these people that her son would be ashamed of her, or loathe her for her actions is disgusting. He most likely would tell them to shut the hell up.

Some of the statements that she has made do make me question her respect for the men and women in uniform, which I have posted before.

I have not heard very much of what she has to say, so I don't really know of the specific statements to which you are referring.

Just how I feel.

Understood.

[Jasper 45]

My opinion is that she has earned the right to say anything that she wants to. Her sacrifice is far greater than a lot of us have made, in a number of ways.
First, her son enlisted in the military, voluntarily.
Secondly, he was deployed into a war zone, as a part of his commitment to our nation, thereby putting his family through untold grief, and worry at his being in harm’s way.
Lastly, and the most significant, her son was killed in action, a permanent sacrifice; I have would say she has earned the right to say just about anything she would like to.

Now, having said that, and having given her the respect she deserves, I am of the opinion those with a political agenda are using her. She is being used in her grief stricken state, something I think is appalling. It is a very sensitive issue; it is also one that has no clear-cut answer, as it is entirely an “opinion” only matter. Very simply, either you think she is right, or she is wrong based on your own personal feelings on Iraq.
Should she be able to meet with the president? She already was given that opportunity.
Should our military men and women be allowed to “pick and choose” their wars? Absolutely not, freedom of speech/choice is preserved by the military, not practiced.
This woman is deserving of our respect, and our admiration; however, her voice should still carry the same weight as any of ours.