Thread: Lock Box keys

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    Default Lock Box keys

    Any one have a good idea on how to store these keys on your apparatus. We have a small tool box and that isn't making it. Does anyone sell anything for this situation. Thanks

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    Why not have the officer carry them? What about a big key ring somewhere on the rig?
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    Being from a small dept. we have a lock box in the fire hall, so the first out unit just grabs the keys for the location were going to. Other dept's i have seen with a knox box in the inside of a compartment or cab of the truck. Everyone on the dept. knows the combination to get into the box, if they arrive on scene and the doors are locked one of the runners goes and gets the keys. Works for them.

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    Knox boxes are meant for the facility to have and install, that way you do not have any keys stored on any apparatus/in any fire hall. The "box" gets mounted in a secured location just out of the general public's reach (we use a attic ladder). The keys are fire department specific. I can't bring my keys to your town and be able to get into your knox boxes installed anywhere in your town.

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    We have a system in all of our apparatus called Sentralock. There is one key in each apparatus that will open any knox box in out district. The Knox Box is basically a little safe where the facilities' keys, floorplans, MSDS, etc. are stored for the FD. In order to release the key the officer on the unit must request that county release the key. Once released the person (Officer) who released it is responsible for it until secured. County is notified upon the safe return ofthe key to the Sentralock box in the truck. This way times are recorded and no one can claim the fire dept misused the key as was the case when a business manager here tried to tell us we came into their business and left their door open. We simply showed them none of our keys were released that day and that the system is tamperproof.

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    Last edited by Ladder27; 12-21-2005 at 01:22 PM.

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    We keep all of our building keys (keys to lock boxes, elevators, station keys, etc.) on a large key ring that is attachted to a one foot long wooden dowel (makes it hard to loose) it is the officer's responsibility to keep up with the keys on all calls.

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    Default knox box

    We have Knox Box keys mounted in a special key holder tumbler mechanism wired to a flashing light so that if the key is removed the light flashes. It is mounted in a small compartment under the Captains seat.

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    Posted by Lieutenant 387

    Knox boxes are meant for the facility to have and install, that way you do not have any keys stored on any apparatus/in any fire hall. The "box" gets mounted in a secured location just out of the general public's reach (we use a attic ladder). The keys are fire department specific. I can't bring my keys to your town and be able to get into your knox boxes installed anywhere in your town.
    We tell those who are installing knox boxes to put them no higher than 5 feet up by the doorway. Getting the pencil ladder every time you need to get into the box is a royal pain in the arse.

    Posted by Ladder27

    We have a system in all of our apparatus called Sentralock. There is one key in each apparatus that will open any knox box in out district. The Knox Box is basically a little safe where the facilities' keys, floorplans, MSDS, etc. are stored for the FD. In order to release the key the officer on the unit must request that county release the key. Once released the person (Officer) who released it is responsible for it until secured. County is notified upon the safe return ofthe key to the Sentralock box in the truck. This way times are recorded and no one can claim the fire dept misused the key as was the case when a business manager here tried to tell us we came into their business and left their door open. We simply showed them none of our keys were released that day and that the system is tamperproof.
    My FD got a great deal on the radio activated kox box keysafes for the apparatus and support vehicles... then found out to have them installed would cost $3K for each rig.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    My FD got a great deal on the radio activated kox box keysafes for the apparatus and support vehicles... then found out to have them installed would cost $3K for each rig.
    HOLY SMOKES!! It cost us something like $50 to $75 to have them installed. Tell ya what...I'll come and install them for $1500 a piece.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladder27
    County is notified upon the safe return ofthe key to the Sentralock box in the truck. This way times are recorded and no one can claim the fire dept misused the key as was the case when a business manager here tried to tell us we came into their business and left their door open. We simply showed them none of our keys were released that day and that the system is tamperproof.
    I won't go into any specifics but I can assure you the system is very far from "tamperproof".

    Birken

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    Tamperproof was not the best term to use... However, property owners can rest assured that there are two ways to get the key to release. Either county has to release it over the radio, or the chief has to use the "key" he has that will release the key in an emergency. The latter does not happen here as that "key" remains locked up in the chiefs office. For all intents and purposes it is highly "tamper-resistant." Is that terminology more digestible for you?

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    Default What's the old saying.... "Locks are for the good people"

    It is very easy to defeat Knox's Sentralock system... think about how it works in most installations.

    But it is not as easy as losing track of free-floating keys in a rig.

    Given that INTEGRITY is inherent to being a firefighter, hopefully this isn't a concern.

    As for mounting the Knox Boxes 9' off the ground.... why bother? If someone were intent on getting into a building, it would be far easier to bust a window/door than that little bomb-proof box. We require all boxes in commercial installations to be tied into alarm systems now anyway, so that a "Tamper Alarm" is tripped when the box is opened... just adds another layer of tracking.
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    We require Knox Boxes on all commercial buildings, apartment complex perimeter gates, etc.

    We tried the radio system for unlocking the key on the rigs. Worked fair but a pain in the a** when the system acts up and there were different tones for each rig. Can you imagine trying to hit the right tone for the right company when 2 or 3 are asking for their key to be released when trying to get into a complex? We then went to the Knox system with the touch-button combination to secure the key on each apparatus. Works much better. When the key is out there is a flashing blue strobe light telling the officer the key is out. A neighboring career department uses the radio version and it is not uncommon for their respective apparatus tone to have to be used 2 or 3 times for it to release.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by lvwrench
    We have Knox Box keys mounted in a special key holder tumbler mechanism wired to a flashing light so that if the key is removed the light flashes.
    We have those too. They look like a little safe, but it just holds the key in the slot until the correct keypad punches are made. The flashing light is to remind you to put the key back in. We mounted ours on the doghouse/engine cover.

    Integrity wasn't the problem with the key ring. Forgetfulness was. Guys would slip the ring in their pocket and forget about it after the run, then leave the next day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladder27
    there are two ways to get the key to release. Either county has to release it over the radio, or the chief has to use the "key" he has that will release the key in an emergency.
    You are making me get more specific than I had hoped to be but just know that there are more ways than that, and do not involve any destruction.

    Birken

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobMattes
    Any one have a good idea on how to store these keys on your apparatus. We have a small tool box and that isn't making it. Does anyone sell anything for this situation. Thanks

    Contact Knox and buy KeySecure. There is no other way to lock the key and really be sure.

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    I'm the administrator for our knox system. We use the key secure, everyone has a PIN and I run an audit trail every 30 days to track usage. The PIN system can be set up multiple ways. As far as the key secure system easy to compromise, good luck. First you need a special allen wrench to remove 4 screws on the face plate and then you need the technician key to get the tumbler out, which only I have. It is about as secure a system you'll ever find. The only keys we carry are for pull boxes and elevators, everything else KNOX BOX. Homeland security has been issuing grants as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant387
    Knox boxes are meant for the facility to have and install, that way you do not have any keys stored on any apparatus/in any fire hall. The "box" gets mounted in a secured location just out of the general public's reach (we use a attic ladder). The keys are fire department specific. I can't bring my keys to your town and be able to get into your knox boxes installed anywhere in your town.
    Mounting the knox box out of the general public's reach is a royal pain in the arse for us.

    We have them mounted no more than 4 to 5 feet high and right by the main enyry doors. No "fiddlin and diddlin" with a ladder to get the damn keys!
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 12-05-2006 at 08:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    We have them mounted no more than 4 to 5 feet high and right by the main entry doors. No "fiddlin and diddlin" with a ladder to get the damn keys!
    Make sure the guy spotting the box is 'normal' size. We had two guys, both well over 6' tall spotting our boxes when we first put them in town. Some of the firefighters have to stand on a plastic bucket to open them.
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    Like Capt. Gonzo, we wanted our boxes to be easily reached by all our members, but as high as possible so that you have to have your hands up in the air to fiddle with it. This way most perps annot hide what they're doing behind their body. Also went with Sentralock with audit trail as the best solution currently offered.

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    We have a department that uses the over the radio lock boxes in the apparatus to hold the Knox key. The only issue is that the radio has to be turned up loud enough to activate the lock but it does offer a check and balance on when the key is accessed as they have to call dispatch and have them activate the units knox box.

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    We have a small lock box in all of our trucks, with a combination to get our knox keys out.It seems to work ok.

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    We use the knox box system and it is very effective for all of our "town" buildings execpt when they change the locks and forget to replace the knox box key ran into that issue once already!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dday05
    We have a small lock box in all of our trucks, with a combination to get our knox keys out.It seems to work ok.
    Ditto that
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