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  1. #1
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default Houston FD criticized...

    Residents Lash Out At Houston Fire Department

    ARMANDO VILLAFRANCA and ROSANNA RUIZ
    The Houston Chronicle

    Community leaders said Tuesday they will seek an independent investigation of how firefighters responded to a southwest Houston apartment fire that killed three children.

    Quanell X said apartment residents and the children's family repeatedly told firefighters the children were still inside, but twice came out of an apartment saying no one was there. On a third attempt, a witness said, firefighters found the children.

    Nation of Islam Minister Robert Muhammad described the conduct of some firefighters at the scene as "cavalier," and that they were seen laughing.

    "They would not have demonstrated the behavior that they did had this fire been in River Oaks. They would not have carried on the way they did laughing and joking," said Quanell X, who said he will submit a formal request for an independent investigation today.

    "The response was too long, the action too short and they did not do what we believe firefighters are trained to do," he said.

    Capt. Gilbert Bennett, Houston Fire Department spokesman, called the allegations unfair. He said the initial unit responding to the fire was traumatized by the loss.

    "They got off this morning and there wasn't anybody smiling or laughing," said Bennett of the firefighters who first responded to the fire.

    Prayer vigil held

    A few dozen residents gathered late Tuesday afternoon for a prayer vigil in memory of T'Kiya Edwards, 7; D'Nya Ball, 5; and Jacquez Trask, 3. The three children were found together in a rear bedroom in the upstairs apartment.

    Their mother, Jessica Ball, 31, was home with her five children when the fire started shortly after 10 a.m. Monday at the Bellfort Southwest Apartments in the 6400 block of West Bellfort. Ball was dozing off in one room with her baby, while the children played in another.

    Her eldest daughter, 9-year-old Alexis Houston, alerted her mother to the fire, according to family members, and Ball scooped up her 10-month-old son, Jace Trask, and the three escaped.

    By the time she handed off the baby, flames and smoke were too great for Ball to return for her other three children, her brother, Joseph Ball said.

    The cause of the fire remained unknown Tuesday and was under investigation.

    Lacy Miller, 63, who lives in the adjoining building, said she was like a grandmother to the two girls and boy.

    "They were sweet little girls, just as sweet as they could be and they had very remarkable parents. You couldn't ask for better parents," she said.

    Veronica Barnes, who made the 911 call, said it took firefighters 25 to 30 minutes before they arrived at the scene. Once firefighters arrived, she said, the children's mother screamed out that she had children in the apartment.

    Barnes said she saw firefighters enter the apartment twice and come out saying they could find no one inside. After repeated calls to go back in, firefighters went inside the apartment a third time and discovered the bodies of the three children.

    One at a time, she said, a firefighter came out of the apartment carrying a child. At one point, she said, she saw a firefighter drop to his knees outside the apartment and shake his head after retrieving a child.

    She said she saw a small group of firefighters gathered in the apartment parking lot joking among themselves.

    Police called for control

    Bennett said the initial crew responding to the fire was devastated by the deaths of the three children and that the charges that they took the tragedy lightly were unfair.

    "We didn't cause the fire, we put out the fire. We came and put out the fire like we do every day," he said. "These people are emotionally upset because they live there."

    Bennett said firefighters who responded to the fire were "slowed up" by some residents who surrounded a fire engine after it arrived at the complex and Houston Police were called to the scene for crowd control.

    The residents, he said, jammed the front electrical gate in their attempt to push it open more quickly. The firefighters were forced to pass the hose line through the fence, but otherwise followed proper procedures as they worked to try to rescue the children, Bennett said.

    A service for the children will be at 11 a.m. Saturday at Greater St. Matthew's Baptist Church, 14919 South Main.

    A memorial fund to help pay for the funeral costs for the three children was established at Wiley Mortuary. Donations can be sent to the funeral home at 1290 Pinemont Drive, Houston, 77018
    What do you think about this?

    Personally, I feel that the Nation of Islam is using this tragedy to stir the crap pot and see what rises to the top.

    Nobody but the firefighters inside the apartment know what the conditions were like. They went into that hell not once, not twice but three times. Any firefighter worth his salt knows that entering an apartment under heavy fire conditions is a difficult task, especially when you know that there are kids trapped.

    The HFD's response time claimed a reported 911 caller is highly suspect.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 12-29-2005 at 09:50 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY


  2. #2
    firefighter7160
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    Last edited by firefighter7160; 11-15-2007 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #3
    Forum Member Smoke20286's Avatar
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    Sorry the video links doesn't work for me. Are you saying that there is some evidence that what these people claim is true? That firefighters would not try as hard to rescue a mionority as they would a white person?
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

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    If the numbers were reversed...70% of the fire fatalities in Houston were white...would this group be concerned?

    There are reasons that minorities have higher numbers in certain things. I don't why it is so hard to figure out.

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    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    As if the firefighters weren't hurting enough, this must just be a kick in the f*ckin' teeth
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  6. #6
    firefighter7160
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    Last edited by firefighter7160; 11-15-2007 at 10:57 PM.

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    Default I do and hes still an ahole

    I work in a city slightly larger than pine bluff, you may have heard of it, its called Philadelphia. I work in an all minority local. I work in an impoverished local. I work in a busy local. I fight fires in "crack houses". Not a single post mentioned the children because we all feel the same. Its a terrible loss and immense tragedy that 3 children lost their lives. What I cant stand is the immediate blame placed on the HFD, its officers, and its members for this tragedy. I would bet that higher than 70% of our fire deaths here in Philly are minority. What do we do about it? We give out free smoke detectors. We give out coupons for rebates on new extention cords when you trade in an old faulty one. We go house to house speaking of the dangers of smoking, hell we even made a RAP video about smoking inside. We provide these communities with the best fire protection in the city, far better than the white neighborhoods. What we cant do is get people to stop from using space heaters and ovens to heat their home. We cant get them to stop using jumper cables to steal electric straight from the line. We cant get them to stop running extention cords from house to house to supply multiple houses from one damn outlet. All we can do is our best when we get their to get them to safety and put the fire out. Fire knows no color. It kills blindly and with malice. I havent yet been able to see skin color of a person thru the heavy black smoke pushing from the windows and door I crawl thru. I havent yet been able to see skin color on the screen of a TIC. Mr. X does raise one interesting question, why didnt the first crew use a TIC? My bet would be they didnt have one. My bet is that not every engine and ladder in Houston has a TIC. Why? Because Mr. X and the rest of the citizens wouldnt stand for the tax hike needed to supply the whole department with such an expensive tool. Here in Philly every ladder has one, every squad company has one, heavy rescue has a few, hazmat has one. Thats alot of money. But, its less than half of what it would cost if tomorrow we needed to put them on all our engines. This job aint cheap and its paid for by tax dollars. Remember that next time you wonder why we dont have all the new high priced gadgets that you seen in the movies.

    Its not about skin color. Until you and Mr. X figure this out, your fight will be a losing one.

  8. #8
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default My hero

    I know Pine Bluff is the heart of the ghetto, but get over yourself. There are plenty of us that deal with urban issues every single day. I am glad you know how the residents of a crack house feel. Most of us know what firefighters feel.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  9. #9
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    Houston is made up of 31% whites, 25% blacks, and 37% hispanic. There, the minorities are actually the majority. It would only make sense that with that ratio, there would be more minority deaths than whites. Their argument (in other public statements) is that there are more minority deaths due to fire than there are of white deaths.

    To suggest these firefighters didn't do all they could to save the people is asinine and unfair. Mister "X" said, "The response was too long, the action too short and they did not do what we believe firefighters are trained to do." Just on what authority does he make these comments? He has seen Ladder 49 and Backdraft? Gimme a break.

    To me, it is just someone using a catastrophic event to make a political statement to further their cause. Tragic.

    And to the point about the firefighters joking and laughing in which we don't know what the jokes were about... It may have been in bad taste to do so in front of everyone, but if we let things get personal, we will have a very rough time emotionally. It is too hard to carry the burden of dead children on your shoulders. I would be willing to bet that the jokes were not about the lost lives. Some people deal with tragic situations with humor. If they crack jokes (not about lost lives), it somehow eases their own pain. They try to "laugh it off." Carrying the burden is why so many firefighters are alcoholics. They can't cope. Others find different means of coping. Humor is one of them. It may sound pretty crappy, but that's the way it is. Hell, I get upset when we lose pets, much less a human. Tears me up, but we have to deal with it somehow. I agree it should be in better taste sometimes. IF (I said IF) the jokes were about inappropriate things, then they should be dealt with accordingly. But we don't know.
    Last edited by RadRob; 12-30-2005 at 01:48 AM.

  10. #10
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke20286
    Sorry the video links doesn't work for me......
    Here is the link; TRY THIS

    Another Link

    One more link
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 12-30-2005 at 05:48 AM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
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  11. #11
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Houston Chronicle -- Hours after telling a neighbor they'd enjoyed their best Christmas ever, three children died in a fire in their southwest Houston apartment Monday morning. The children were found huddled in a back bedroom, having died despite the efforts of their parents and of neighbors who climbed a tree trying to save them. Their mother and two other children escaped, according to the Houston Fire Department, which is still investigating the cause of the blaze.
    Jessica Ball, 31, was home with her five children when the fire started shortly after 10 a.m. at the Bellfort Southwest Apartments in the 6400 block of West Bellfort. Ball was dozing off in one room with her baby, while the children played in another. Her oldest daughter, 9-year-old Alexis Houston, alerted her mother to the fire, according to family members, and Ball scooped up her 10-month-old son, Jace Trask, and the three escaped. By the time she handed off the baby, flames and smoke were too great for Ball to return for her other three children, her brother Joseph Ball said.
    The three middle children: T'Kiya Edwards, 7; D'Nya Ball, 5; and Jacquez Trask, 3, died, according to Joseph Ball, 32."I don't even know how to think that I had three kids and now they are no more," said Earnest Trask, the father of Ball's two youngest children and her common-law husband of six years. "I have lost so much."
    The scene
    Trask returned to the complex after running an errand when he saw Alexis go to a neighbor's apartment to call for help. He broke down a door to his own unit as firefighters arrived, he said, but was driven back by smoke and flames. A complex resident, Andrea Woods, said two other residents shimmied up a tree to reach a window of the second-floor apartment in a rescue attempt, but also were unable to enter.
    Response to the fire was delayed briefly when an electric emergency gate jammed as residents tried to push it open more quickly, said Houston Fire Capt. Gilbert Bennett. Family and friends, who live in the complex and watched frantically as the fire burned, complained of a slow response.
    T'Kiya, the eldest of the three dead children, was most severely burned, according to family members. They speculated that was because she had shielded the others from the smoke and flames."She was burned real bad on her face and back, but the others were not," said Joseph Ball. "Even now, they looked like three beautiful children. They were precious to us."
    Trask wiped tears from his eyes with his soot-covered T-shirt as he stood outside Memorial Hermann Hospital, where his wife and the two surviving children were treated and released. Ball received minor burns on her legs and the two children were uninjured, according to Joseph Ball.
    The family spent Christmas together, gathering for dinner at Ball's sister's home. They exchanged gifts and enjoyed family time, Joseph Ball said.The girls — Alexis, T'Kiya and D'Nya, who attended Eleanor Tinsley Elementary School — all received bicycles from their uncle. Jacquez got a game to help teach him to spell and read."She didn't have much, but she worked hard to give what she could to the children this year," said Terica Bickman, Trask's cousin.Neighbor Shown Jones said she had spoken with the children Sunday about Christmas."They said, 'We had a tree full of stuff.' They were so excited about their Christmas presents," Jones said.
    The cause of the fire and other details are under investigation, Bennett said, but Joseph Ball, 32, said he understood the fire started in a mattress in his sister's apartment. Four units also were damaged in the fire. Trask, whose family had lived in the complex since August, said he had complained of sparks coming from an outlet in his unit. Other family and friends who also live at the complex agreed there had been electrical problems. Trask said nothing was done about them. Complex manager Alexis Layssard said she received no complaints of electrical problems and that service requests are sent to the fire marshal.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
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  12. #12
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Houston Chronicle -- As a Houston Fire Department firetruck pulled up to a burning southwest Houston apartment complex the morning after Christmas, about 20 residents surged forth, imploring them to rescue three trapped children. Some frantic residents pulled the truck doors open.
    Others plucked tools off the truck so they could reach Jessica Ball's children, ages 7, 5 and 2, whose haunting cries could be heard from inside the burning unit of the Bellfort Southwest Apartments. And still others, although well-intentioned, jammed the complex's front electrical gate in their attempts to make it open more quickly.
    The moments that followed, where Ball's first lifeless child emerged in the arms of one firefighter, then the second and finally her third, enraged the family, residents and community leaders who said the department did not adequately respond to the incident.

    On Thursday, Ball and other family members met privately with HFD Chief Phil Boriskie and other fire officials. Both sides spoke publicly afterward.

    "They were too slow," she said about the firefighters' actions Monday. "They kept asking me if my kids were in there, like I was crazy, telling me my kids weren't in there when I knew they were."

    "Why did they come out two times saying no kids are in the house? Go in there and find those kids and don't come out until you find them."

    During the more than hourlong meeting, Boriskie said he answered Ball's questions and explained that the firefighters who arrived on the scene first had to abandon their typical procedures once it was clear the electrical gate was inoperable.

    The firefighters were forced to snake fire hoses through the openings of the metal gate and made their way to the fire, already consuming the unit. The fire and the trapped children would require a "fast attack" or aggressive approach.

    A team of six firefighters was sent inside the unit: While two controlled the fire, two searched the front and another two the back areas of the apartment. A "support team," or backup team of firefighters, stood at the front door, ready if called to help, explained Assistant Fire Chief Rick Flanagan, who also met with the family.


    Special camera left in truck
    The firefighters who searched the front portion of the unit but did not find the children were the ones who questioned Ball while the search continued inside. She had questioned why the firefighters entered then exited the unit three times.

    The department confirmed Thursday that the firefighters chose not to use a thermal infrared imagery camera in their search for the children.

    Flanagan said the firefighters left the equipment inside the truck so they could work more quickly. The camera, he explained, requires a two-man team and "you still have to adjust the camera while someone else is doing the search."

    "I think if we weren't confronted with some of the issues, I think they would've had a chance to stick to a normal plan."

    The children — T'Kiya Edwards, D'Nya Ball and Jacquez Trask — were found in a back bedroom, huddled together.

    Flanagan and HFD Capt. Gilbert Bennett both say the camera had no role in the children's deaths.

    "It's not an issue — the fire was well-involved before our arrival," Bennett said. "The camera is a tool ... but, we train firefighters to do searches on their own and look for people in the worst conditions possible."

    Despite the meeting, Ball said the firefighters' actions continue to trouble her.

    "The fire department could have done a better job," said Ball, who escaped the blaze along with two of her other children. Attempts by her and other residents to return inside the unit were unsuccessful.

    Flanagan said an internal investigation typical of such fatal fires is ongoing as is the investigation into the cause of the fire. The same complex, Bennett said, was the site of a fire three weeks earlier. Neither would address claims of electrical problems at the complex.

    Flanagan also said complaints about inappropriate behavior on the part of firefighters were addressed, but may not result in disciplinary action. The department initially denied any inappropriate behavior.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
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  13. #13
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Default Thank you, Ray ...

    Absolutely heartbreaking

    I don't know why this one is getting to me more than any of the other times you all write about losing the battle, especially when it is children lost. I can't imagine the pain you all must feel when faced with losses like this.

    This, especially, breaks my heart ....

    T'Kiya, the eldest of the three dead children, was most severely burned, according to family members. They speculated that was because she had shielded the others from the smoke and flames."She was burned real bad on her face and back, but the others were not," said Joseph Ball. "Even now, they looked like three beautiful children.
    Surely there must be a special place in heaven for this young heroine, protecting her siblings to the end, shielding them with her own body. Truly an angel.

    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

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    After watching the second video of Quanell X, it seems his message wasn't that bad. He DID place much of the blame of the 70% on the ignorance of the community, and asked that the HFD help to educate them. As for him being upset at the way a few ff's acted on scene... well... can you blame them? There is a time and place for everything, and this just wasn't right. (Assuming it all went down as the media says)

    A fire scene with a loss of life is probably not the best time to be making jokes. Back at the station, where there are no bystanders, thats different.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Flanagan said the firefighters left the equipment inside the truck so they could work more quickly. The camera, he explained, requires a two-man team and "you still have to adjust the camera while someone else is doing the search."
    Can someone please explain this Assistant Chief's statement to me? It's got me lost.

    Terrible tragedy.

    One other thought, about the FF's "joking". Were they a separate company that was uninvolved and possibly unaware of everything that had transpired? Hmm, we don't know do we.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Im not sure what he meant about the camera either. i do know that there have been other issues about HFD not using their TIC's including a crackhouse fire that claimed the life of a captain, when they were doing a search for reported trapped victims. i personally think HFD made a really good stop on that fire in one of houston hundreds of poorly constructed, overcrowded apartment-ghettos, and the civillians dont have all the facts, they are just distraught. i watched more indepth news and they were several factors affecting response time including a mob of people at the front gate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrojanHorse
    What is a 411????

    411 = information, from the infomation number on the telephone. Outdated slang that the kids don't really use anymore, around here anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by millerman
    After watching the second video of Quanell X, it seems his message wasn't that bad. He DID place much of the blame of the 70% on the ignorance of the community, and asked that the HFD help to educate them. As for him being upset at the way a few ff's acted on scene... well... can you blame them? There is a time and place for everything, and this just wasn't right. (Assuming it all went down as the media says)

    A fire scene with a loss of life is probably not the best time to be making jokes. Back at the station, where there are no bystanders, thats different.
    You see that Gonzo?
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    TICs will not save the world. Yes they are new tools for the tool box, but let's go one step forward. How about sprinkler systems in mutli-family residental properities? It would have a hard time passing anywhere in the United States, those politicians want to get re-elected. A single head from a residential type system may have held the fire in place until the fire department could arrive.

    As for TICs. I believe that every piece of fire apparatus should not have a TIC. My job, being assigned to an engine company, is to put the wet stuff on the red stuff. It is our truckie's job for search and rescue. Granted for a staffed department it is not a problem. Everyone has their roles on the fire ground. In volunteer land that may not be possible depending on the turn out. So may one on each apparatus might make sense.

    Just my two cents.

  20. #20
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    lexfd, we have 1 on our engine and 1 on our truck.

    It helps the truck guys with search and overhaul and such.

    It greatly helps the engine guys to make sure the water is actually going on the fire, it helps to see and overcome any obstacles that may be between the fire and the hose, it helps in determining what/where the actual fire is.

    Yes, this can all be done without a TIC, but it's much easier with it. At under $9k for the camera, charger, spare batteries, the benefits outweighed the cost.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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