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  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber firefighterbeau's Avatar
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    hope you don't or didn't go with the Central, we have bought 3 of there trucks and all of them have showed up with problems. We bought a Pierce a few years back and have never ever had a problem with it.


  2. #22
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    We are getting an Ahreans Fox and in my opinion getting far more truck than you are speccing for less money.

    Maybe you should contact them.

    2000 pump, 1000 gallon tank, stainless steel recue pumper body, 10 kW generator, 4 telescopic 1550 watt lights, 1 - 1500 watt eyebrow light, 2 - 200 foot cord reels, a Hale Foam Logic 3.3 Class A foam system with a 30 gallon tank. All compartments are full height full depth with roll out doors, one has 3 vertical tool boards, 3 have roll out trays, with an intermediate shelf and also roll out drop downs. The rear compartment has a roll out tray with 2 Hurst reels mounted on the compartment ceiling. The cab has seating for 6, 5 with scba. There is an EMS compartment with power to it from the shoreline and generator. The cab is airconditioned with a auxilairy heater for the rear of the cab. The cab is an HME P-2 with a 370 Cummins engine and an Allison 3000 transmission. The body is two tone black over red.

    The preconnects include 2 - 200 foot 2 inch on the front bumper, 2 - 300 foot 2 inch over the pump, 2 - 2 1/2 inch discharges off the rear and a mid mounted deluge gun. There is a rear suction but no front suction.

    The ladders are in an overhead ladder rack.

    And NO I am not a saleperson for them...but we did shop around and we did talk to both Pierce and Seagrave.

    FyredUp

    FyredUp

  3. #23
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog
    You got it right that's what it means. Many of the NE Rust Belt states have laws like that, most state any work done for government agencies (buildings equipment etc.) must be buildt with labor that's paid the "Prevailing Rate" ie union rate. That's one of many reasons these states have high taxes and everyone in their right mind is leaving! Kind of makes bidding a shame especially in building construction since the only variable is how much time is estimated.

    Of course these states also are none right to work states so industry is leaving too so it all equals out since industry is leaving too!!
    You got it wrong.

    When my Department orders a rig, we cannot tell the manufacturers you have to pay your workers $xx.xx an hour.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  4. #24
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    I'm abit confuse (as always) about this NJ prevailing wage item. How do they come up with the prevailing wage? Do they survey all the union builders and come with an average then force a possible non union shop to accept the higher wage??? Does this get turned over to the employees and how?? As a IAFF member I hope my dues aren't going to people to figure this out...sometimes this is what drives me bonkers about about the other side of union activities. Can you explain...this all seems so out there.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckdog
    I'm abit confuse (as always) about this NJ prevailing wage item. How do they come up with the prevailing wage? Do they survey all the union builders and come with an average then force a possible non union shop to accept the higher wage??? Does this get turned over to the employees and how?? As a IAFF member I hope my dues aren't going to people to figure this out...sometimes this is what drives me bonkers about about the other side of union activities. Can you explain...this all seems so out there.
    I am not a Lawyer but I will try to give you a answer! When state,county,local, tax money is spent to build or purchase a vehicle bidders are required to comply with affirmative action & non-discrimination provisions of P.L.1975 C.127 and payment of prevailing wages within new jersey or in other states where the equipment is being built, and there " Payroll " must be recorded and provided to the buyer for public record. ( The apparatus builder must pay prevailing wages for there state )

  6. #26
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    YIKES.........Am I glad I live in Wisconsin.......all we have to worry about here is cow @#*% and beer farts!!!!


    Hey FyredUp........may I ask price of that rig???

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=Firefighter1244]YIKES.........Am I glad I live in Wisconsin.......all we have to worry about here is cow @#*% and beer farts!!!!

    Sounds like Texas
    most of our farts come from the Mexican food thou.
    chased down by a few cold .....
    "Go Horns"

  8. #28
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    I Live in Wisconsin and we were forced to pay prevailing wage rates on both our new station construction - The Municipality got into some hot water when it was thought they did not pay it for the new Library.

  9. #29
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    Default Bids

    Ordered new pumper in Oct 2005. Rosenbauer got the order, excepted delivery July 2006.

    Pierce dealer stated that the truck we spec'ed could not be done. Rosenbauer said they could do it with no problem, also the next was price. Pierce shot a bid of $370,000 for truck alone that could not be built. Rosenbauer $260,000 per the spec's given.

  10. #30
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    Did Pierce say why it couldent be built? When there is such a huge difference in bids somtimes it makes you wonder if they thought it might have a lot of warranty claims based on the spec, so they bid really high so they wouldent get the job.

  11. #31
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Firefighter1244

    Cost is roughly $255K.

    FyredUp

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1
    Did Pierce say why it couldent be built? When there is such a huge difference in bids somtimes it makes you wonder if they thought it might have a lot of warranty claims based on the spec, so they bid really high so they wouldent get the job.
    The cost of a ( Seagrave & Pierce ) chassis is around $ 200,000 and spartan Advantage is in the $ 150,000 range !

  13. #33
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    Why does it cost $50k more for a Pierce than Spartan? does the Pierce offer that much more to justify the cost? That is quite a difference. Would that be for a Pierce Dash, Lance? prabally not the Quantum.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ledebuhr1
    Why does it cost $50k more for a Pierce than Spartan? does the Pierce offer that much more to justify the cost? That is quite a difference. Would that be for a Pierce Dash, Lance? prabally not the Quantum.
    The " Pierce Dash Chassis " with a 430-515 HP engine & 4000EVS Trans would cost $ 200,000 . the only chassis from Pierce that is low cost would be the " Contender " Saber cab & chassis with 330 HP & 3000 EVS trans, 10.25" frame rails - vs- 13.00" on the other models from Pierce!

  15. #35
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII
    10.25" frame rails - vs- 13.00" on the other models from Pierce!
    That is 10.125 and 13.125.
    FTM - PTB

  16. #36
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    appropo of nothing, but I've seen several specs here for 400 hp engines and 3000evs trannies. Isn't that kinda on the edge of the envelope for that tranny? I've heard the rule of thumb was that when you get to/exceed 400 hp to step up to the 4000 series tranny.

    when we bid our rescue engine, the initial quotes were all over the map from around 200,000 (ferrara) to 325,000 (seagrave)

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfd3501
    appropo of nothing, but I've seen several specs here for 400 hp engines and 3000evs trannies. Isn't that kinda on the edge of the envelope for that tranny? I've heard the rule of thumb was that when you get to/exceed 400 hp to step up to the 4000 series tranny.

    when we bid our rescue engine, the initial quotes were all over the map from around 200,000 (ferrara) to 325,000 (seagrave)
    Look at the torque ratings on the two trannies then the torque on the motor used. I am looking at that very thing on an engine we are trying to get. You can get a 330hp Cummins in multiple motors, the difference is the torque each will put out. Most are in the 800-950 ft lbs, then jump to 1000 to 1200 ft lbs then jump to 1250 to 1500 ft lbs. Difference is ISC vs. ISL vs. ISM.


    http://www.allisontransmission.com/d.../specs_EVS.pdf


    http://www.everytime.cummins.com/eve...tions/fire.jsp
    Last edited by ChiefDog; 01-11-2006 at 12:09 PM.

  18. #38
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    Not custom but will bite on this.

    our district just awarded a contract for 3 engines to General Fire they are the local Central States dealer. a little over 180k each.

    Based on our support and reliability of previous Central States units this decision was a no brainer ( and yes I said reliability in the same phrase as Central States )

    PDF Drawing here. http://www.generalfire.com/Trucks/Ne...mpertender.pdf

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp
    We are getting an Ahreans Fox and in my opinion getting far more truck than you are speccing for less money.
    NO FREAKIN WAY is any HME product ever going to be more truck for less. Mark the date you take delivery on a calender and tally the nickels and dimes. I'm familiar with quite a few HME products (1 intimately) and all are JUNK!!! Rust after 2 years, wiring harness fires, screws falling out everywhere, poor workmanship, etc. Also, see what you end up with, it wouldn't be the first time they said they could build you a truck and shown up with options missing because the engineers said they couldn't be done.

    BTC3205: "Pierce dealer stated that the truck we spec'ed could not be done. Rosenbauer said they could do it with no problem, also the next was price."

    Check out the White Plains, NY FORD/SMEAL rear mount ladder. Another truck that reputable builders said couldn't, shouln't and wouldn't build. What a junk! Wouldn't fit in the house! Sometimes you gotta wonder why some one says it can't or shouldn't be done. Others willleave you to your devices and build what you want, whether it works or not. It's not like Rosenbuaer has to worry about tarnishing their good name, they'll just buy another one.

    Lastly, who besides Seagrave is a Union Shop? Not Peirce, Not E-On, Not ALF... I guess whatever Seagrave pays make the prevailing wage?

  20. #40
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    I thought I was told that Pierce WAS a union shop?!?!

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