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    Default FDNY Ladder Apparatus

    Greetings to All,

    I have a question regarding FDNY Ladder Appratus. I saw in a separate publication (i.e. The Fire Bell Club's "News Notes") that two tillered trucks were received in late 2005. They were slated for Ladder Companies 147 & 175 pending acceptance. Have they actually been placed in service yet?

    Also, what ever happened to the rearmounts and tower-ladders that were supposed to replace the 1994, 1995 and 1996 vintage rigs?

    Has New York City postponed new apparatus from Seagrave, have they been delayed in assembly or is NYC shopping around for someone else?

    Thanks for any info

    1261Truckie (aka Jim Boyle)

    PS - Hope everyone's Christmas & New Years were good

    NEVER FORGET 9/11/01 and THE FDNY 343

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1261Truckie
    Greetings to All,

    I have a question regarding FDNY Ladder Appratus. I saw in a separate publication (i.e. The Fire Bell Club's "News Notes") that two tillered trucks were received in late 2005. They were slated for Ladder Companies 147 & 175 pending acceptance. Have they actually been placed in service yet?
    As is my understanding both were in service.

    L 147 was in a fatality accident and damaged..not sure if back in service.
    L175 caught fire one day. Not sure of its disposition either.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default

    175 is at the shops.

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    In regards to the delay in the rearmounts follow this link to NYC site. Seagrave has gone throught some restructuring to say the least. They should have things figured out now.
    http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/em...l#commissioner

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    CBS 2 Exclusive: Brooklyn Firemen Riding In Jalopy
    Ladder 175 Forced To Use 14-Year-Old Truck After New One Ruled Defective
    Marcia Kramer

    (CBS) BROOKLYN The union representing city firefighters claims the manufacturer of their fire trucks is unreliable, citing a firehouse in Brooklyn that's been using a truck from the 1990s ever since their new vehicle broke down.

    The firefighters of Ladder 175 in East New York, Brooklyn, were using a beat up, 14-year-old truck on Wednesday. Defects sent their brand-new truck back to the manufacturer, Seagrave, after only five days.

    “This is entirely unacceptable it compromises firefighter safety and public safety,” said Steven Cassidy, President of the Uniformed Firefighters Association.

    As WCBSTV.com first reported in September, the Fire Department has had a beef with Seagrave over repair issues and the quality of its rigs.

    Last September CBS2 found the new Ladder 175 sitting in Seagrave's East Brunswick, N.J., sales and service yard. But it was not delivered until last week.

    It had problems almost immediately. Last Saturday it was taken out of service. Sources said a Seagrave mechanic worked on the truck in the fire company's East New York quarters for 10 hours.

    Hours after the mechanic left, the truck broke down again at the corner of Atlantic Avenue and Highland Place. Smoke poured out of the engine and the firefighters were stranded. They had to wait four hours for a tow.

    Now the company has to use a truck so old its broken odometer stopped at 76,400 miles and the number “175” is held on with tape.

    “The procurement process under this administration, under (Fire Commissioner) Nick Scoppetta, is a disaster,” Cassidy charged. “He's compromised the safety of my firefighters and the public. It's outrageous and instead of admitting they made a mistake, they will stick with this company and try to fix it. They've made more mistakes on top of more mistakes and they’ve compromised everyone in the City of New York.”

    Fire Department spokesman Frank Gribbon says the problems with Ladder 175 are not the commissioner’s fault. What’s more, he says the commissioner is giving Seagrave a new $10 million contract for 12 new tower ladders. Steve Cassidy says the problems with Ladder 175 should be a warning to the FDNY not to do business with just one company.

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    Default fdny ladder apparatus etc

    this ongoing situation with unreliable service from co. a versus co. b is not new.
    back in 1980 the fdny rebelled against a major source of apparatus they had done business with for many years. they went elsewhere. the next year the original co. made a small comeback and sold fdny some rigs. but the 2 following years it failed to do so. seems like when u try to standardize all of the rigs in the fleet u will have a problem with service coz they get to thinking they r beyond being let go.

    fdny needs to try a pilot program and see if the pierce midmount tower 95ft will work in new york. it sells for less than the scopes. the extra reach cant hurt on the boom.pierce is generally reliable but not perfectly so. id suggest alf/lti but alf is in a transition of ownership.eone is not fdny quality. kme couldnt build 2 towers for philly. smeal made some for cleveland but they look flimsy. i'd say try pierce out and let's see what happens instead of playing a game with seagrave.
    Last edited by apparatusfan; 01-08-2006 at 08:28 AM. Reason: mispelling

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    They would probably hate the football field that the pierce mid mounts require for setup. I don't know why they don't just get their current apparatus (scopes) refurbed. New chassis/body/old scope with new hydraulics and new wear pads. It would be just like new....

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefeng7
    They would probably hate the football field that the pierce mid mounts require for setup. I don't know why they don't just get their current apparatus (scopes) refurbed. New chassis/body/old scope with new hydraulics and new wear pads. It would be just like new....

    Jon
    The fire commisoner from F.D.N.Y. sould take a look at the great job " Pierce" did on the ( Birdsboro Aerialscope Refurb ) and it would only cost the city about $ 550,000 not 1- million dollars and get two scopes for the price of one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII
    The fire commisoner from F.D.N.Y. sould take a look at.....
    Mr. Magoo doesn't know the difference between an Engine and a Truck...
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Quote Originally Posted by E40FDNYL35
    Mr. Magoo doesn't know the difference between an Engine and a Truck...

    Tell it like it is Bro....

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    Quote Originally Posted by blueflame
    CBS 2 Exclusive: Brooklyn Firemen Riding In Jalopy
    Ladder 175 Forced To Use 14-Year-Old Truck After New One Ruled Defective
    Marcia Kramer

    (CBS) BROOKLYN The union representing city firefighters claims the manufacturer of their fire trucks is unreliable, citing a firehouse in Brooklyn that's been using a truck from the 1990s ever since their new vehicle broke down.

    The firefighters of Ladder 175 in East New York, Brooklyn, were using a beat up, 14-year-old truck on Wednesday. Defects sent their brand-new truck back to the manufacturer, Seagrave, after only five days.

    “This is entirely unacceptable it compromises firefighter safety and public safety,” said Steven Cassidy, President of the Uniformed Firefighters Association.

    As WCBSTV.com first reported in September, the Fire Department has had a beef with Seagrave over repair issues and the quality of its rigs.

    Last September CBS2 found the new Ladder 175 sitting in Seagrave's East Brunswick, N.J., sales and service yard. But it was not delivered until last week.

    It had problems almost immediately. Last Saturday it was taken out of service. Sources said a Seagrave mechanic worked on the truck in the fire company's East New York quarters for 10 hours.

    Hours after the mechanic left, the truck broke down again at the corner of Atlantic Avenue and Highland Place. Smoke poured out of the engine and the firefighters were stranded. They had to wait four hours for a tow.

    Now the company has to use a truck so old its broken odometer stopped at 76,400 miles and the number “175” is held on with tape.

    “The procurement process under this administration, under (Fire Commissioner) Nick Scoppetta, is a disaster,” Cassidy charged. “He's compromised the safety of my firefighters and the public. It's outrageous and instead of admitting they made a mistake, they will stick with this company and try to fix it. They've made more mistakes on top of more mistakes and they’ve compromised everyone in the City of New York.”

    Fire Department spokesman Frank Gribbon says the problems with Ladder 175 are not the commissioner’s fault. What’s more, he says the commissioner is giving Seagrave a new $10 million contract for 12 new tower ladders. Steve Cassidy says the problems with Ladder 175 should be a warning to the FDNY not to do business with just one company.
    The F.D.N.Y. Procurement department sould give " Ferrara Fire Apparatus " a contract to build a " Demo tower ladder " that would work well in the tight streets of the city. It could be built on there " Steel fixed cab & chassis ".

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    Listen BROTHER I agree...FDNY should do a lot of things. It's all comes down to dollars and cents. FDNY has no dollars and no sense.
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 01-08-2006 at 04:20 PM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII
    The F.D.N.Y. Procurement department sould give " Ferrara Fire Apparatus " a contract to build a " Demo tower ladder " that would work well in the tight streets of the city. It could be built on there " Steel fixed cab & chassis ".

    This is starting to sound a lot like the Chicago turnout gear thread......

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    Default ferrara

    if ferrara is going to go anywhere they have some baggage to take care of. in cleveland the heavy rescue squads didnt last but a few years. elsewhere ive heard likewise. now houston is trying them out and fdny likewise. b4 too much is thrown their way test them out thoroughly i say.

    also give pierce some business. do what los angeles is doing. a split pumper deal between seagrave and pierce. try the new pierce arrow xt alongside the seagrave commander II. as for ladders its tough to find a tower that is compact enuff for the tight squeezes of nyc alleys and streets. dont know how alf/lti 75ft tower would work for fdny.
    Last edited by apparatusfan; 01-08-2006 at 07:42 PM. Reason: spelling

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    F.D.N.Y. can start by buying a few ( Pierce Arrow XT 105 ' Rear Mount ladders ) and see how they hold up on the pothole city streets of New York !!

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    The only Pierce chassis that has a chance is the Arrow XT. Anything else is a Seagrave of another name. And before too much is hung upon the mantle of proven reliability with LAFD, give it some time. A rig in LAFD is always going to last longer than other comperable departments due to the TF concept and rotation of duties from Engine to Pump based upon hours. Factor in roads not being like NYC and you have reasons why the Arrow XT works there on the West Coast.

    The FFA fixed cab rigs they have currently on the HP pumpers are getting mixed reviews from what I understand. Maybe E40FDNYL35 can offer some insight on this.

    Seagrave has been in the FDNY market for decades. The basic design of the Scope has worked for them since around '64 with the 1st at TL-01. LTI's version is not the same. Nor is Sutphen, E-One, Pierce, Smeal or anyone elses for that matter.

    Oh well, should be interesting. But one thing is for sure, Seagrave is slipping. Sounds like Mack and ALF from decades ago.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Alittle off subject, But Seagraves is slipping big time. Heard from a local dealer and they have been having apparatus come in for delivery that have been only 75% complete from the factory, when asked why he has been told that management has set that there will 28 trucks off the line per month if done or not, leaving the local dealer to complete the truck how true this is I'm not sure. A department in the next town over had their new Seagrave pumper delivery set back a few months due to delays on the line.
    Peace to our fallen brothers...

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    It makes me wonder if Seagrave is going to be the next FDNY casualty.

    Look at the three previous pumper manufacturers for FDNY:

    Mack: Out of the firetruck business
    ALF: Went belly up to be reborn and now being sold
    Ward: Went belly up
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Bring back MACK!


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    Quote Originally Posted by IronsMan53
    It makes me wonder if Seagrave is going to be the next FDNY casualty.

    Look at the three previous pumper manufacturers for FDNY:

    Mack: Out of the firetruck business
    ALF: Went belly up to be reborn and now being sold
    Ward: Went belly up
    The kiss of death, depending on FDNY for your business plan to work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    Bring back MACK!


    Now that is a Fire Truck!!!!!!!!!

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    Let me begin by saying we run Pierce and ar every satisfied, so I may be slightly biased when it comes to our apparatus, However I don't really care what FDNY runs. I just wanted to point out that LAFD is not the only large city running Pierce apparatus. I'd like to hear from someone in Detroit about the Pierce ladders (Medium duty 75' i think) and how they are holding up there. If they are holding up there I'd say thats an indication they can handle NYC streets. Also I knoe DCFD Has a few Pierces. Anyone on here run on a DCFD Pierce?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NJTF1Bowman
    Alittle off subject, But Seagraves is slipping big time. Heard from a local dealer and they have been having apparatus come in for delivery that have been only 75% complete from the factory, when asked why he has been told that management has set that there will 28 trucks off the line per month if done or not, leaving the local dealer to complete the truck how true this is I'm not sure. A department in the next town over had their new Seagrave pumper delivery set back a few months due to delays on the line.
    My department droped off our ( Seagrave Pumper ) for service work at the new location of Seagrave Sales & Service in East Brunswick, N.J. about 2 weeks ago and I saw a few new completed apparatus in the service yard getting washed & Lettered for customer pick up. we talked to a mechanic about the F.D.N.Y trucks that where out of service & needing repair, He said that they are almost completed and are waiting for parts from venders. and more mechanics were hired !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladder27
    Let me begin by saying we run Pierce and ar every satisfied, so I may be slightly biased when it comes to our apparatus, However I don't really care what FDNY runs. I just wanted to point out that LAFD is not the only large city running Pierce apparatus. I'd like to hear from someone in Detroit about the Pierce ladders (Medium duty 75' i think) and how they are holding up there. If they are holding up there I'd say thats an indication they can handle NYC streets. Also I knoe DCFD Has a few Pierces. Anyone on here run on a DCFD Pierce?
    It was mentioned by ChicagoFF in another thread that their Pierce Ladders weren't able to match the durability of their old Seagraves as they couldn't punch out windows with them. For us that is probably going to be a deal breaker.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- hfd66truck- I believe you meant to say thats a Fire "ENGINE"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    PS- hfd66truck- I believe you meant to say thats a Fire "ENGINE"!

    I bow my head in shame and stand corrected by the gentleman from NYC!

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