Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 45

Thread: Helmet stickers

  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In my own little world
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    From the U.S. Flag Code:

    Would that not be advertising the union?
    Thanks for the info, I have never heard that before. Yes, in a way that could be considered advertising, it is more to show ones paying membership to the IAFF as opposed to someone advertising a business but can go either way.

    It only goes to show how many people are ingorant to this code. Anywhere from 4th of July napkins and paper towels to union stickers, the flag is everywhere.

    Now the question is, what is a better way to show pride for our country and flag? Drawing, sticking, sewing, labeling it everywhere, or by respecting it's code?
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
    http://thedarksideof911.blogspot.com/
    FTM-PTB-EGH
    IACOJ


  2. #22
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Nevada, TX, U-S-A!!
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmitchell
    It only goes to show how many people are ingorant to this code. Anywhere from 4th of July napkins and paper towels to union stickers, the flag is everywhere.

    Now the question is, what is a better way to show pride for our country and flag? Drawing, sticking, sewing, labeling it everywhere you can or by respecting it's code.
    I agree, you see it used in a lot of places. I also agree that it is a great way to show pride. It all comes down to intent. But if you open the law up to intent, it is left to someone's definition of intent and their discretion. That can have major unwanted results and a whole other $h!t storm.

  3. #23
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC/Northern Virginia
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jmitchell
    Thanks for the info, I have never heard that before. Yes, in a way that could be considered advertising, it is more to show ones paying membership to the IAFF as opposed to someone advertising a business but can go either way.

    It only goes to show how many people are ingorant to this code. Anywhere from 4th of July napkins and paper towels to union stickers, the flag is everywhere.

    Now the question is, what is a better way to show pride for our country and flag? Drawing, sticking, sewing, labeling it everywhere, or by respecting it's code?
    I find it perfectly ok to place the flag on most things, a napkin you are going to wipe your face with is not one of those things. I do NOT think it is ok to place anything on IT though. Just my personal feelings as an old Marine born on the Fourth of July.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  4. #24
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC/Northern Virginia
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RadRob
    Some people on here don't care what anyone says about the flag and the treatment of it. Heck, some people on here think it is ok to burn the flag and desecrate it however they please because it is freedom of expression.
    It ****es me off to see a flag burning but I agree that it is an action that exercises that very freedom of expression that the flag symbolizes. Just one of the paradoxes of true freedom.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  5. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In my own little world
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Just my personal feelings as an old Marine born on the Fourth of July.
    You would be a good runner up for the next "Uncle Sam"
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
    http://thedarksideof911.blogspot.com/
    FTM-PTB-EGH
    IACOJ

  6. #26
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    140

    Exclamation

    SAY IT LOUD and say it proud!!!

  7. #27
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    From the U.S. Flag Code:

    Would that not be advertising the union?
    Not at all.. it shows pride.

    Pride on being an American.
    Pride on being a member of the IAFF.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  8. #28
    MembersZone Subscriber SFDredhat126's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    370

    Default

    I would be proud to show it if I were to put it on my helmet. I would never think of it as disrespecting my country or the men & women who have served it. Intent by the user and interpretation from others can be two entirely different things.

  9. #29
    MembersZone Subscriber fieldseng2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    826

    Default

    I don't believe we have an actual policy on stickers. I've seen all kinds of crazy stuff put on helmets here.

    The only thing that may be remotely close to a policy related to this is that we can not alter our safety equipment where its intended use is affected.

    Thats probably up for self-interpetation too.

  10. #30
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    From the U.S. Flag Code:
    Would that not be advertising the union?
    Where does that leave an ordinary flag sticker on a helmet? I mean.. is it right to put a flag on your helmet since it will be exposed to heat, smoke, sheetrock and every other nasty thing that drips or drops in a fire? Wouldn't that be desecration? What about departments that wear an American flag patch on their bunker gear? Even if you clean your gear often, that thing is going to get nasty. Is that desecration?

    Back on topic... We have no rules on helmet stickers. Outside of the last name spelled out across the back of the lid -- I can only think of one or two of the career folks that have any. I'm sure anything would be cool as long as it didn't make us look like idiots.

  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis
    Where does that leave an ordinary flag sticker on a helmet? I mean.. is it right to put a flag on your helmet since it will be exposed to heat, smoke, sheetrock and every other nasty thing that drips or drops in a fire? Wouldn't that be desecration? What about departments that wear an American flag patch on their bunker gear? Even if you clean your gear often, that thing is going to get nasty. Is that desecration?

    Back on topic... We have no rules on helmet stickers. Outside of the last name spelled out across the back of the lid -- I can only think of one or two of the career folks that have any. I'm sure anything would be cool as long as it didn't make us look like idiots.
    Maybe our soldiers ought to take them off in combat too? Maybe a bullet will hit it. Come on man, taking the flag into battle (in our case fires) is not desecration. Its been done since the Flag was first made.

  12. #32
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    Maybe our soldiers ought to take them off in combat too? Maybe a bullet will hit it. Come on man, taking the flag into battle (in our case fires) is not desecration. Its been done since the Flag was first made.
    Exactly!

    On my lid I have a 2" "fir Na Tine" decal on the rear brim, two small shamrocks on the rear tets, and my name on the back of the crown.

    I have no desire to see, nor will we tolerate anything obscene, racial or the like...Niether does the public.




    Kevin
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  13. #33
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    236

    Default

    I, like many others on my dept., have the Flag/IAFF sticker. It is one of the many things that the chief is ignorant of.

    We have an Engineer/Driver who has SpongeBob SquarePants, a 3" stuff one, hanging off his hook of his helmet. He uses it at vehicle accidents to help calm the little ones.

  14. #34
    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In my own little world
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Sponge Bob eh? I did see a guy once who put little stickers of ants around his helmet. Don't ask why, I don't even think he knows.

    To me, a helmet must be respected, don't junk it up with a bunch on nonesence.
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
    http://thedarksideof911.blogspot.com/
    FTM-PTB-EGH
    IACOJ

  15. #35
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    Maybe our soldiers ought to take them off in combat too? Maybe a bullet will hit it. Come on man, taking the flag into battle (in our case fires) is not desecration. Its been done since the Flag was first made.
    I was just playing devil's advocate. If we're going to go with a strict enforcement of the flag code... we've gotta enforce the whole thing and not just the parts we like. Mostly, I'm thinking of:"(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way." Putting a flag on a helmet or bunker gear allows it to be soiled and damaged, eh?

  16. #36
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis
    I was just playing devil's advocate. If we're going to go with a strict enforcement of the flag code... we've gotta enforce the whole thing and not just the parts we like. Mostly, I'm thinking of:"(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way." Putting a flag on a helmet or bunker gear allows it to be soiled and damaged, eh?
    Not if your an "outstanding" firefighter!


    I'm not sure if this is accurate or not...
    I was told that an "image" or "replica" of the flag is considered unservicable when it is no longer recognizable, i.e., faded, tarnished, stained, etc.

    Note (J) below.









    Specials Home Page Flagpoles US Flags State Flags

    Home | Site Map | Privacy Policy




    U.S. Flag Code

    Half Staff

    Flag Etiquette








    Our Flag




    In this section, you will find detailed information about the flag code, frequently asked questions about the flag, instructions for folding the flag, the words for the pledge of allegiance, its history, how to dispose of unserviceable flags, among other flag issues.

    See More Below

    Q: May a person, other than a veteran, have their casket draped with the flag of the United States? A: Yes, although this honor is usually reserved for veterans or highly regarded state and national figures, the Flag Code does not prohibit this use.

    Q: Can a flag that has been used to cover a casket be displayed after its original use?

    A: There are no provisions in the Flag Code to suggest otherwise. It would be a fitting tribute to the memory of the deceased veteran and their service to a grateful nation if their casket flag were displayed.

    Q: Can the United States flag be displayed on days when the weather is inclement?

    A: The flag should not be displayed on days when the weather is inclement, except when an all weather (nylon or other non-absorbent material) flag is displayed. However, most all flags are made of all weather materials.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: What is the significance of displaying the flag at half-staff?

    A: This gesture is a sign to indicate the nation mourns the death of an individual(s), such as death of the President or former President, Vice President, Supreme Court Justice, member of Congress, Secretary of an executive or military department, etc. Only the President of the United States or the Governor of the State may order the flag to be half-staffed. The honor and reverence accorded this solemn act is quickly becoming eroded by those individuals and agencies that display the flag at half-staff on inappropriate occasions without proper authority to do so.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: When the flag is not flown from a staff, how should it be displayed?

    A: It should be displayed vertically, whether indoors or out, and suspended so that its folds fall free as though the flag were staffed. The stripes may be displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right; that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window of a home or a place of business, the flag should be displayed in the same way; that is, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: How are unserviceable flags destroyed?

    A:The Flag Code suggests that, "when a flag has served its useful purpose, it should be destroyed, preferably by burning." For individual citizens, this should be done discreetly so the act of destruction is not perceived as a protest or desecration. Many American Legion Posts conduct Disposal of Unserviceable Flag Ceremonies on June 14, Flag Day. This ceremony creates a particularly dignified and solemn occasion for the retirement of unserviceable flags.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: Can the flag be washed or dry-cleaned?

    A: Yes. There are no provisions of the Flag Code which prohibit such care. The decision to wash or dry-clean would be dependent on the material.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: Are you required to destroy the flag if it touches the ground?

    A: Flag Code section 176b states that the flag should not touch anything beneath it such as the ground. This is stated to indicate that care should be exercised in the handling of the flag, to protect it from becoming soiled or damaged. You ARE NOT required to destroy the flag when this happens. As long as the flag remains suitable for display, even if washing or dry-cleaning (which is acceptable practice) is required, you may continue to display the flag as a symbol of our great country.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: What is the proper method for folding the flag?

    A: The Flag Code does not require any specific method, however, there is a tradition that has developed over time. This method produces a triangular shaped form like that of a three corner hat with only the blue union showing.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: May a person, other than a veteran, have their casket draped with the flag of the United States?

    A: Yes, although this honor is usually reserved for veterans or highly regarded state and national figures, the Flag Code does not prohibit this use.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: What is the significance of the gold fringe which we see on some American flags?

    A: Records indicate that fringe was first used on the flag as early as 1835. It was not until 1895 it was officially added to the National flag for all regiments of the Army. For civilian use, fringe is not required as an integral part of the flag, nor can its use be said to constitute an unauthorized addition to the design prescribed by statute. It is considered that fringe is used as an honorable enrichment only.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: What is meant by the flag's own right?

    A: The "right" as the position of honor developed from the time when the "right hand" was the "weapon hand" or "point of danger." The right hand, raised without a weapon, was a sign of peace. The right hand, to any observer, is the observer's left. Therefore, as used in the Flag Code, the flag and/or blue field is displayed to the left of the observer, which is the flag's "own right."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: Is it proper to fly the flag of the United States at night?

    A: The Flag Code states it is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flag staffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness. The American Legion interprets " proper illumination" as a light specifically placed to illuminate the flag (preferred) or having a light source sufficient to illuminate the flag so it is recognizable as such by the casual observer.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q:What should be the position of the flag when displayed from a staff in a church, public auditorium or other public meeting place, whether indoors or outdoors, on platform, or on the floor at ground level?

    A: When used on a speaker's platform, the flag, if displayed flat, should be displayed above and behind the speaker. When displayed from a staff in a church, public auditorium or meeting place, the flag should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience. Prior to the Flag Code changes in 1976, the display procedure was somewhat different. Now the staffed flag should always be placed to the right of the speaker (observer's left) without regard to a platform or floor level.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Q: What are the penalties for the physical desecration of the flag?

    A: There are currently no penalties for the physical desecration of the flag. The American Legion and other members of the Citizens Flag Alliance continue working towards securing a Constitutional amendment to protect the flag from physical desecration.



    Conduct during playing National Anthem
    During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.




    The Flag Code - Respect for Flag
    Respect for flag No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

    (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

    (b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

    (c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

    (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free.

    Bunting of blue, white, and red always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

    (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

    (f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

    (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

    (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

    (i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkin or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

    (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

    (k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning. (Disposal of Unserviceable Flags Ceremony)















    Half Staff









    Home Page - Flagpole Directory - United States Flags - State Flags -

    Click Here To Send e-mail

    Copyright © 2000, Anchor Flag, INC 2044 Hwy 9 West, Longs, SC 29568



    Kevin
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  17. #37
    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In my own little world
    Posts
    402

    Default

    (e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

    (g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
    The first line suggests that it may not be in a situation where it may be torn, damaged or soiled which firefighting does do but these guidelines are for a real flag, not a sticker. The same rules may apply but since it is only a sticker, is it still thought of in the same way as a real flag?

    (g) states that no insignia or logo may be placed on the flag which would include the IAFF logo. But once again, they are talking about a real flag. I wonder if we can find anywhere or anyone that is able to tell us if there is any difference between a real flag and a flag sticker.
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
    http://thedarksideof911.blogspot.com/
    FTM-PTB-EGH
    IACOJ

  18. #38
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC/Northern Virginia
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    Not at all.. it shows pride.

    Pride on being an American.
    Pride on being a member of the IAFF.
    So should Honest Bob's Used Cars be able to stick their logo in the middle of the flag and claim it is pride in the cleansinest of the cars they offer?
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  19. #39
    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In my own little world
    Posts
    402

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    So should Honest Bob's Used Cars be able to stick their logo in the middle of the flag and claim it is pride in the cleansinest of the cars they offer?
    I don't neccessaraly aggree that we should not put anything on a flag sticker. I think the code was written more for people who would misuse the flag and it's meaning. I think Honest Bob and the IAFF, just want to show their pride in being an american. The lone sticker on my helmet is a flag with "343 FDNY" written on it. And the white stripes are reflective.

    Like I said before, I don't know if these rules are only for an actual flag or if they carry over for stickers as well.
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
    http://thedarksideof911.blogspot.com/
    FTM-PTB-EGH
    IACOJ

  20. #40
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    The flag has been taken into battle since its creation... including today where it can be torn, damaged soiled etc. I've worn flags on my coat, helmet...had them on the rig in the front and flying off the back. Just flying the flag on a flag pole will get it damaged from sun and wind.

    As for marketing or advertising...I have a pin from the Secret Service I was given from a member during the RNC that is the Red white and blue with the Secret Service emblem over it...I guess that is also wrong?

    I think a few here are reading much too much into this stuff and should relax a little bit.

    JMO.

    FTM-PTB

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Teaneck Firefighters removing helmet stickers etc.
    By Salman1 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-26-2005, 09:53 AM
  2. helmet stickers
    By firefighterdfd7 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11-19-2003, 02:01 AM
  3. Helmet Stickers I need some advice/help
    By Hoppy851 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-10-2002, 11:56 PM
  4. IAFF Helmet Stickers
    By scrapper in forum Career/Paid Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-20-2001, 06:12 PM
  5. Worcester W6 helmet stickers
    By sophielab1 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-04-2001, 03:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts