1. #1
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    Default Which equipment should a RIT carry?

    Hi!

    In another discussion the question came on about the proper equipment of a RIT.

    There are several possibilitys:

    -hoseline

    -scba and spare mask

    -forcible entry tools (set of irons, pry axe)

    -search tools (axe)

    -transportation device

    ...

    The team should be able to move as fast as possible an safe at the same time, it should also carry everything which is needed in this situation.

    By the way: I`m a German fireman, so our systems differ a litte:

    We`ve a standing order since 1970: if two guys get in, there have to be two more outside with cba. traditionally, they had a handlight and 100 feet of rope, maybe they would take a 1.5 inches hoseline with them.

    In the last years we changed the system on account of several reasons:
    - extra air supply to make a trapped firefighter survive during getting him out
    -heavier tools on account of higher burgular safety in residences (the standard German fireaxe is a 5 pound, good for nothing pickhead- style with a blunt point (!)
    - 100 foot of 1-inch hoseline in a special bag, if the RIT goes inside not following a hoseline

    Personally I think it is the best way if the RIT gets CBA-equipped and gets all the stuff they could use ready for action. So they can pick up what they actually need without loosing any time.

    What do you think?

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    In my neck of the woods, RIT teams are yard breathers (this is a good thing, no?) with a section tarped/coned off with tools they want/need.

    things i grab?

    irons package
    boxlights
    vent saw
    K-12
    RIT Bag - snap lights, 175 ft 6.5mm tagline, 1hr bottle w/regulator,mask, shears, cutters/pliers, chocks, radio

    iv'e seen

    defib
    hook and can
    preconnect (dry)

    what do i take in?
    i'll split the irons with a partner, a boxlight, and pack the bag. set a tag line, and away we go.

    Idea is that RIT already has radios, boxlights. radio in rit bag is for the vic., along with the extra boxlight.

    On the vic. note, if you have to part ways with the vic. before they can exit the IDLH with you, take some snaplights, get them going, then cut the tops and splash them around. Those suckers can turn night to day...make trails if you want, easier to relocate..

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    The system descrided by our German colleague is basically what has been used in the UK since the late 1950's.... all BA wearers in teams, and Emeregency team at least as large as the largest team in there. And with the same level of protection...i.e if teams are inside in standard BA and extended duration BA, the the Emergency Team will be a Rescue Co crew with EDBA.

    Wheter the team use hose, BA Guidelines etc will depend on the conditions inside. They will always take a spare BA set or a peice of eqpt, similar to a BA set known as Emergency Air Supply Equipment.

    They will standby at the BA entry Control point with radios tuned to command and BA Comms channels. If an ADSU (Pass) sounds, a crerw reports trapped, Comms breaks down or thewy are not out by the time of whistle on the BA board then the Emergency Team will go in.

    JoJo,
    In Europe, you work very similarly to us in the UK, you may find some of the technical bulletins relating to BA use in the UK useful.
    Steve Dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDude
    The system descrided by our German colleague is

    JoJo,
    In Europe, you work very similarly to us in the UK, you may find some of the technical bulletins relating to BA use in the UK useful.
    Just one or two decades behind the british, if I look at guideline search routines or BA- registration and control...

    Could you provide some links about the british BA manuals?

    I always like to learn more...

    Greetings, Jojo.

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    JoJo,
    Unfortunately the BA procedures are not published on line. They are available in written form in manuals and every brigade has their own version of these. I will see if I can e-mail a copy of London's BA Procedure to my home e-mail, where I will be able to pass it on to you.
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    Standard Equipment:
    PPE
    SCBA & spare bottles
    Flashlights
    6’ Hook
    Circular Saw & Chain Saw
    2 sets of “IRONS” (flathead ax and halligan bar)
    Thermal Imaging Camera
    Scott RIT Pak II
    200’ Search Rope.

    Additional Equipment as needed:
    Stokes Basket
    Hand Operated Hydraulic Holmatro Combination Tool
    First Aid Supply Bag with O2
    AED
    Holmatro Combination Tool
    Air Bag Set
    Sawzalls
    Assorted cribbing.


    Also each member shall have their own personal rescue rope and portable radio (if available, or for each pair of FF’s).


    We split into 2 4 man teams. 1 is a Search team, 1 is a Rescue team.

    Search team enters with some of the "standard equipment", once they locate they radio to Rescue team any additional equipment that may be needed.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDude
    JoJo,
    I will see if I can e-mail a copy of London's BA Procedure to my home e-mail, where I will be able to pass it on to you.
    Thanks, that would be a real help!

    Jojo

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    You cannot move fast with a hose line. Remember what your task is. Search and rescue of a downed firefighter. The other firefighters on scene SHOULD NOT abandon their operations. Engine companies continue to put the wet stuff on the red stuff. While the ladders/trucks continue search and rescue.

    Our team spent a few days refining our skills and found that the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) method was the best approach. We broke it down to the fact that the initial RIT response might be able to supply air to the downed firefighter only. A second team would be need for the rescue.

    Our team usually equips as follows:
    (1) Officer - TIC and search line
    (2) Tools - set of irons
    (3) Air - RIT bag with 1 hour SCBA, cable cutters, webbing and 40' 8mm cord
    and if we are luck and staffed correctly
    (4) Tools/Entry - responds when downed firefighter is found for man power and any extra tools that might be needed, just has to follow the search line in

    Hope this helps a bit.

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    JoJo,
    There are 22 sections to our Breathing Apparatus and Emergency Procedures covering many hundreds of pages.

    I have e-mailed the relevant sections (about 8 sections) to my home e-mail, if you provide me with an e-mail adress I will forward them to you.

    Please use the PM facility to send me a private message if you wish to keep your e-mail address secure.
    Last edited by SteveDude; 01-11-2006 at 03:42 PM.
    Steve Dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5
    You cannot move fast with a hose line. Remember what your task is. Search and rescue of a downed firefighter. The other firefighters on scene SHOULD NOT abandon their operations. Engine companies continue to put the wet stuff on the red stuff. While the ladders/trucks continue search and rescue.

    Our team spent a few days refining our skills and found that the K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) method was the best approach. We broke it down to the fact that the initial RIT response might be able to supply air to the downed firefighter only. A second team would be need for the rescue.

    Our team usually equips as follows:
    (1) Officer - TIC and search line
    (2) Tools - set of irons
    (3) Air - RIT bag with 1 hour SCBA, cable cutters, webbing and 40' 8mm cord
    and if we are luck and staffed correctly
    (4) Tools/Entry - responds when downed firefighter is found for man power and any extra tools that might be needed, just has to follow the search line in

    Hope this helps a bit.
    Pretty much the same here. Speed is the priority. Im surprised to hear of people useing hose lines, saws and medical equipment. That equipment wouldnt be used by a "rapid" team here. If the RIG (what we call RIT) gets in and finds that type of equipment is needed, it turns into a full blown heavy rescue situation and multiple teams are deployed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDude
    JoJo,

    I have e-mailed the relevant sections (about 8 sections) to my home e-mail, if you provide me with an e-mail adress I will forward them to you.
    Great, that`s a real help.

    maeschle@email.de is the adress


    Jojo

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    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5
    You cannot move fast with a hose line.

    Hope this helps a bit.
    I htink that this depends on the Hoseline.

    Take a look:

    http://www.dietrich-co.de/new/USAT%20307.php

    A firefighter developed a special bag to carry 100 feet of 1-inch-Hose.

    The hoseline runs out by itself (dry) .

    My FD doesn`t use it so far, but I tried it out once and really like it.

    Jojo.

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    One problem I see with it is what if you are only in 50'. You'd end up with 50' twisted pile of hose. Not a pretty sight.

    The other being can you get an effective fire flow from the hose. Brings up the good old booster line structure fire attack debate.

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    JoJo,
    I have sent the documents by e-mail, check your inbox.

    I also have an issue with the small hose like Lexfd. We would use High Pressure Hosereel (booster) instead of that, because at least what you lost in flow you would make up in pressure and the hose is so thick and rubbery it cannot kink like layflat hose.

    However, despite being apparent 'experts' in Firefighting with HP Hosereel....as most of you will know the UK does 80% of its firefighting with this hose.... the type of situation where a RIT has been deployed would be the situation where we would be using or changing to large diameter Hose...in fact all of our safety procedures dictate that Hosereels should be replaced with large diameter lines if a crew is trapped.
    Steve Dude
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    I don't think that RIT/FAST deployments are quite routine enough to say don't take a hoseline or always take one. What if the call is for a man who feel through the floor into the well involved cellar? What if the fire is the proble and you need to confine or control it to get to the trapped person? It's not always about being lost/disoriented. I wouldn't advocate stretching a line every time or even pre-deploying it the the RIT area, but there may be times when you need a hose from the get go. When you get a call for a team trapped by fire in the rear of the building, maybe taking a line in to control the fire would be better than going in a verifying that what the trapped members said it true.

    Secondly, I'm not to excited about a 1" hoseline as part of RIT/FAST. When the Sh*t hits the fan you're going to deploya hose with less water than our (American Fire Service) standard small line? Chances are the RIT/FAST is needed because conditions are poor, using a small line will not help! The fire doesn't care if you used it because it was fast an mobile, if the fire requires 200 gpm to be overcome anything less is a waste of time and resources. It is this lack of basic firefighting knowledge that will cause RIT/FAST deployments in the first place.

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    For some reason...everyone thinks if a FAST team is going to work, they (FAST) will be the only ones in there. As long as there are a few Engine Companies there there should be a line stretched to protect the FAST team while they do what they need to do.

    Removing a downed fireman, many times soaked with water himself, is a physically draining task. Having the FAST team take a hose line will only delay their operations, wear their stamina down and prevent them from taking the necessary tools.

    If you think they can take a line...protect themselves and remove the fireman...you are sorely mistaken...ask the Brothers in East New York who had to remove Fr. Scalfani (RIP) last year under similar conditions. Leave the hose work to the Engines.

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    For some reason...everyone thinks if a FAST team is going to work, they (FAST) will be the only ones in there. As long as there are a few Engine Companies there there should be a line stretched to protect the FAST team while they do what they need to do.FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    If you think they can take a line...protect themselves and remove the fireman...you are sorely mistaken...ask the Brothers in East New York who had to remove Fr. Scalfani (RIP) last year under similar conditions. Leave the hose work to the Engines.

    FTM-PTB
    110% right.....Capt Fowler (RIP) comes to mind as does Fr. Brick (RIP).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    B I N G O!!

    Yep. Our initial RIT takes the RIT air bottle/equipment, and their light hand tools and they get to the victim as rapidly as possible and get him air. Simultaneously, upon location they should be calling for additional help (backup RIT, who will perform the extrication if the initial team can not, and other companies to bring in water to protect in place in the meantime). Lots of stuff needs to happen, but generally, if we don't get that guy air, nothing else is going to matter.
    "The more we sweat in training, the less we bleed in battle."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    For some reason...everyone thinks if a FAST team is going to work, they (FAST) will be the only ones in there. As long as there are a few Engine Companies there there should be a line stretched to protect the FAST team while they do what they need to do.

    Removing a downed fireman, many times soaked with water himself, is a physically draining task. Having the FAST team take a hose line will only delay their operations, wear their stamina down and prevent them from taking the necessary tools.

    If you think they can take a line...protect themselves and remove the fireman...you are sorely mistaken...ask the Brothers in East New York who had to remove Fr. Scalfani (RIP) last year under similar conditions. Leave the hose work to the Engines.

    FTM-PTB
    Fair point Fred, but it is only the US, Canada and their related Nations that have specific Engine & Truck Crews, The UK, Europe Asia, Australasia etc...have crews working across all areas of Fire & Rescue without these specific assignments. An aerial Truck in the rest of the World will generally have a Crew of two and be used soley as a water tower or a rescue device.

    Anyway, you are right, our procedure is that the Rescue Team will be commited soley as a Rescue Team, if they need water, they will be accompanied/backed up by a Crew with a hoseline, also, on hearing the ADSU (Distress alarm) all other crews who are not engaged in essential Officensive Firefighting or not engaged in another Rescue will all head toward the sound of the device whilst getting an update of their last known location, pressure, and so on....this is where our strict BA entry procedures come into their own and why so often (although not always as the last year has demonstrated) our Rescues are just that and not recoveries.
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    Our team usually pulls the following equipment:

    RIT bag includes SCBA and mask with search rope
    1 or 2 sets of irons (depends on staffing)
    sledge
    K saw or chain saw
    We would like to add a TNT tool in place of sledge though.

    each member wears a seat harness, personal rescue rope and usually a light and radio.

    if its a larger scale incident we may pull a few other tools and stage them like a cordless recip saw, stokes, porta-power, etc.
    Last edited by 911WACKER; 01-19-2006 at 11:36 PM.
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