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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
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    Question LDH Hose Testing

    We are about to test the LDH on our pumper but I have only done this with 1 3/4 and 2 1/2. When we tested the attack lines, we did it without a hose tester by stretching out a couple hundred feet coming from a wye attached to the pumper and attaching a nozzle to the end. Charged the line to 50PSI and bleed out any air. Closed off the nozzles and bumped the pressure to whatever the hose was rated for, then shut off the wye, and left it charged for about 5 min and checked for leaks.

    Now my question is, what is the proper way to test LDH? Is it done the same way as the attack lines and what is the best method for stopping the flow of water at the end of the hose? We will be testing 4" and 5".
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
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    You can do it the same way. I beleive no more than 300 ft. in any one length. Careful not to expend all your tank water! We put a 4" to (2) 2.5" adapter o the end of two of them and a reducer and nozzle on the other (three at a time x 300'). That's just what we have avaialable that stops the flow, yets allows us to bleed off the air. Also helps to mark the coupling area of the hose with black marker to seem if teh pressure pushes the clamp on coupling. We test most to 185 psi, but have some that is 225 psi. Obviously you must test all like pressured hoses together and not mix them in any test as the pumper is a closed system and all pressures equalize to the highest.

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    Default LDH Testing

    We had the same questions when first confronted with testing our 5" hose. We have a 5" storz to 3" thread adapter. After using a double male adapter on the 3" side of the adapter, a nozzle was connected for bleeding and draining. I believe the duration was 5 minutes at 200 psi. This has done the trick for us, however the 5" has only failed during working fires.

    I would think that there is a tool for testing hose, but that would require a purchase.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E1E2TL3
    I would think that there is a tool for testing hose, but that would require a purchase.
    We do have the machine but my company has yet to get the chance to use it. A few weeks ago when we scheduled to test the attack lines, another station took it before we had the chance. Speaking without experience in the machine, it supposeidly works great, especially because you do not need your engine.

    Thanks for your input
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
    http://thedarksideof911.blogspot.com/
    FTM-PTB-EGH
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  5. #5
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    We use a 5" storz to 2 1/2" gated wye. Just blead the air then shut the valves on the wye.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

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    And instead of connecting the LDH right to the pump, feed it with same drilled 2.5" gate valve you would use for the smaller hoses. Connect the LD to a short 2.5" hose with 2.5-ldh adapter, then to the drilled gate on the pump outlet.
    After filling, but before pressurizing, closing the drilled gate limits the hose reaction if a section fails at test pressure.

    I don't think its supposed to be performed like a leak-down test, test pressure has to be maintained for the entire test duration.

    Like RFDACMsez, all size hose jackets best be marked with a sharpie before pressurizing to better check evidence of separation of the coupling to jacket, clean jacket will be exposed.

    Limit the number of people in the test area, and they best have on PPE.

    The drilled gate valve will not only maintain test pressure for the test, but will limit the volume of water flowed upon a failure, reducing hose reaction, and is safer for anyone entering the test area to reinspect for leaks and jacket/bushing separation.

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    Default LDH testing

    jmitchell,

    LDH testing is the same for all sizes.

    Although 300 total feet is acceptable, I would suggest shorter sections of LDH to speed it up. It takes a lot of water and time to pressure up LDH, and if you have to drain in and start over because of a leak or failure, it adds a lot of refill time.

    Also, longer lengths and larger sizes store more energy in case of failure, so I would recommend 100' max on 4 & 5".

    As a note, you should do all tests per NFPA, current edition.

    Also, I would suggest waiting to use the test pump. HFD had severe problems many years ago by using the truck as a source. Impeller failures and seal problems had changed policy at HFD to use the test pumps.

    If you need detailed requirements on the proceedure, drop me a line and I'll furnish them.

    Give me a heads up on the test date, and I'll drop by and show you if I have no conflicts.

    JT

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    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtstoney
    jmitchell,

    LDH testing is the same for all sizes.

    Although 300 total feet is acceptable, I would suggest shorter sections of LDH to speed it up. It takes a lot of water and time to pressure up LDH, and if you have to drain in and start over because of a leak or failure, it adds a lot of refill time.

    Also, longer lengths and larger sizes store more energy in case of failure, so I would recommend 100' max on 4 & 5".

    As a note, you should do all tests per NFPA, current edition.

    Also, I would suggest waiting to use the test pump. HFD had severe problems many years ago by using the truck as a source. Impeller failures and seal problems had changed policy at HFD to use the test pumps.

    If you need detailed requirements on the proceedure, drop me a line and I'll furnish them.

    Give me a heads up on the test date, and I'll drop by and show you if I have no conflicts.

    JT
    Thanks. As of now, I have not heard of a date. If we come up with one I will let you know.
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
    http://thedarksideof911.blogspot.com/
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    IACOJ

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    Thumbs up Here is what we do...

    I have been with my department for ten years and we test our hose on a yearly basis. We test all our own hose, including the 1300' of 4" LDH on each truck. We take a marker and draw a line around the hose where the coupling is and test 300' at a time. We have a hose tester that will usually allow us to test 4 300' sections at a time, so we get it done all at once. We fill the hose, then bleed it off to make sure all of the air is out. We then pressurize the hose to 200 pounds. Be careful, because the burst pressure for LDH is 210. Once we get the pressure to 200, we leave it alone for five minutes. If the hose loses more than 10 percent of its pressure, it fails. If any section leaks or bursts, it fails. If there is a noticeable space between the marker line and the coupling to show for possible movement of the hose, it fails. If it passes, we write the year on the hose (ex. 06), clean it, reload it in such a way that the folds are different to prevent rotting, and move on.

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    Also, longer lengths and larger sizes store more energy in case of failure, so I would recommend 100' max on 4 & 5".

    Um, no.

    Water is essentially incompressible so it does not act as a store of energy.

    And I doubt anyone is testing hose with enough elevation change for gravity to create any potential energy.

    There is concern for air entrapped in the hose, since air will act as a store for energy. Which is why you flow water & bleed the lines before going to test pressure.

    The danger in hose testing comes primarily from volume, which is why hose testers or using aluminum plates with a hole in them on your pump discharge is good practice to limit volume (vs. the least preferred option of having the pump operator remember to gate back the discharge before bringing up to test pressure).

    We use a test machine for a small lines and usually the 4".

    We do vary it from NFPA on our 5" in that we lay a single, 5000' line in an access controlled area and do the test on the entire length at once. It's just a matter of practicality due to the amount of time it would take to test the hose in shorter lengths -- takes 2-3 hours as it is. Hose is on a reel truck, which takes special training at at least 4 people (and preferably 8-12 as "many hands make light work") to reload so hiring an outside firm isn't practical either. Sometimes you have to find reasonable compromises -- other features of the hose test procedure are followed, and it's done once a year both of which are good, but we don't spend an entire weekend it would take to test in shorter segments.

    For the 5", we use a standard fire pump, since the test pressure for supply LDH (200psi) isn't excessive for a fire pump.
    Last edited by Dalmatian190; 01-18-2006 at 11:00 PM.

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    I had not really looked or done much research on hose testing. Just took what the senior men had taught. Never heard of a drilled gate used for testing( hope not something that common that I should have caught on to). Is this an old gate adapted for testing or a special gate made for the sole purpose of hose testing?

    We also use the pump to do all hose testing, while on duty. Never got caught while testing, but have caught jobs right as the last hose was packed.

    Jmitchell

    Can you tell me what brand/type of hose test machine you have. I would like to research them. It would make it more practical to have one since all hose testing is done while on duty. It would keep the engine a bit freer for responses.

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    MembersZone Subscriber MrYuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E1E2TL3
    Jmitchell

    Can you tell me what brand/type of hose test machine you have. I would like to research them. It would make it more practical to have one since all hose testing is done while on duty. It would keep the engine a bit freer for responses.
    When we tested our hand lines, we did it with the engine. On the same day, another engine company was using the machine so I never got to see it. I can try to find out for you.
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
    http://thedarksideof911.blogspot.com/
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    MembersZone Subscriber osh599's Avatar
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    Default LDH Testing

    I test all of our hose on the department every year and I use the Delta Hydro Hose Tester from Niedner. This fabulous machine will allow you to test up to 2400' of hose at once!

    When testing LDH, I test 200' at one time using only the two lower ports on the testing machine. The company supplies two short lengths of 2 1/2" hose to extend the LDH away from the machine due to the weight once filled with water. They also provide Storz bleeder caps with a petcock for bleeding air and draining. The machine is attached to a hydrant and has a Honda engine for it's power supply. We don't use our engines since you can ruin a pump by performing the hose testing. In fact NFPA does not encourage you to use your apparatus for hose testing. ( It can be done if a hose testing machine is not available)

    Our hose loads are as follows; 400' x 1 3/4", 200' x 2 1/2", 600' x 3" and 1,000' x 5" LDH. I can test all of this hose in four (4) hours including stripping and re-loading of the hose.



    This is similiar to the hose tester that we use but it does not have the pressure washer attachment.

    All hose under LDH is tested in 200' lengths which totals 1200' of hose tested at once.

    The company supplies the machine with 6 - 2 1/2" bleeder caps, 6 - 1 1/2" bleeder caps and 2 - Storz bleeder caps.

    The cost for this machine is around $5000 with the above mentioned accessories.
    Jim Shultz
    Oshtemo Fire Dept
    Fleet Maintenance Specialist

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