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  1. #61
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    Hello,
    I've been reading this thread and have to ask, why do so many of you not like 1 1/2" attack lines? We have 2- 1 1/2" crosslays, 0ne 200', and the other 250'. These are used very effectively(I think) for "Bread and butter" fires. I do agree, for bigger fires you need bigger water( we also have 4- 2" pre-connects 200' each.), but why make more work than necessary?
    Now, let me also say that i'm not a lazy person trying to get out of "extra" work, and not trying to criticize anybody. In fact i'm asking so that i may learn somthing here !


  2. #62
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDtruckLt
    Hello,
    I've been reading this thread and have to ask, why do so many of you not like 1 1/2" attack lines? We have 2- 1 1/2" crosslays, 0ne 200', and the other 250'. These are used very effectively(I think) for "Bread and butter" fires. I do agree, for bigger fires you need bigger water( we also have 4- 2" pre-connects 200' each.), but why make more work than necessary?
    Now, let me also say that i'm not a lazy person trying to get out of "extra" work, and not trying to criticize anybody. In fact i'm asking so that i may learn somthing here !

    Just a few questions.....what Dept are you from?.....atleast give a geographical area....state or county.

    How many 1st due jobs do you get in a year?
    What is your area's demoprapghics?

    Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to break your chops......

  3. #63
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    I work for a fairly large dept. in N.C.. The company that I ride right now is not too busy(newer station), but the engine i just left (last fall) answered about 1900 calls last year. I will have to wait until tomorrow to give you exact numbers on working fires for the year, i'm not on duty right now. As a guess, we (my engine alone) probably had 10-15 "Jobs".
    No offense taken. That's why I asked the question, wanting to learn somthing.
    I have worked here for more than 10 years, long enough to know that some things are done because "that's how we've always done it" and that's o.k. for some things. Now that i have been visiting this site and reading what y'all have to say about alot of things I realize that there are other(somtimes better) ways to do things. I learned a long time ago if i don't ask i won't learn.
    Thanks in advance for your time.

  4. #64
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    RFDtruckLT...

    My career FD uses 1 3/4 inch hose. My volly uses 2 inch hose.

    My volly uses 2 inch to flow 200 gpm at 75 psi through a combo tip or 290 at 40 psi through a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We under pump the comba at times to flow around 160 or so.

    Why 2 inch? Simple, short staffing during the day and this allows maximum flow with minimum people. We have been using this for a few years now and it works well for us.

    It started with one 2 inch preconnect off the back of the engine and every time we had a working fire the guys would go for that line. The chief decided to change out the whole department so we did.

    Should you do it too? Heck, I don't know. What works for us may be an abysmal failure for you. I can tell you we haven't used 1 1/2 inch hose for almost 2 decades. We decided the flow wasn't enough for us.

    FyredUp

  5. #65
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    RFDTRUCKLT- What Raleigh station are you at?

  6. #66
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    GFDLT1- station 26
    Fyred up- what do you call short staffing? How many people to a working fire 1st alarm?

  7. #67
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    RFDtruckLT...

    Okay here's an example...we had a call at 0409 on a Monday morning and we had 12 people turn out. This was a very good response for us. It may have been better than normal because the page came across as smoke showing from the eaves. By the way, we saved the house and other than the hole I chopped through the siding from the attic you couldn't tell from the outside there had even been a fire there.

    It is not unusual for us to respond with 8 FF's during the day. Mutual aid is at best 10 minutes away. So we have to do what we can with what we have and the 2 inch and high flow in my mind have made the difference more than once for us.

    On my career FD we get a minimum of 12 and usually 14 for a report of a structure fire. Upgrading to a first alarm gets a mutual aid engine and another engine or quint and a BLS unit from our FD.

    FyredUp

  8. #68
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    FyredUp,
    We have 3 engines, 1 truck(ladder), & one rescue on first alarm. So we have a min. of 14 on scene in maybe 9-10 min.. 1st due engine pulls 11/2"(95 or 125 gpm) starts interior operations.2nd due engine catches hydrant & lays into 1st engine. Remaining manpower on 2nd due pulls second 1/12" line to back up 1st crew inside. Truck does ventilation/ primary search. Rescue does secondary search.
    With all this being said, we have 2 1 1/2" lines inside operating in under 5 min. usually.With both lines set on 125 gpm we get a total of 250 gpm. with excellent manuverability(sp).
    Obviously if the fire dictates, upon arrival we pull 2" lines, or whatever the OIC thinks he needs.
    This seems to work fine for us, that's why i was asking about the downside of 1 1/2".

  9. #69
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    RFDtruckLT...

    We can underpump to flow as little as your 1 1/2 if the fire is small enough. The big advantage for us is 2 guys can advance the line and flow 2 1/2 flows with a line not much bigger than an 1 3/4 inch line.

    Again, this works for us. I wouldn't begin to tell you what you do is wrong. Obviously it has worked for you.

    FyredUp

  10. #70
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    As i read back through this post, I realized somthing you said that I missed earlier. That is that you are using low pressure nozzles. We have low pressure nozzles for our high rise packs(also 1 1/2"), but however much I hate to say it I don't have too much experience with them as I am a "truckie" now. (the last one in the city that has no pump). I see by your postings that you like the L.P. nozzles pretty good.
    See, now I have a good idea for some training coming up. Go out with the engine and flow some water with their L.P. nozzle!!

  11. #71
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    RFDtruckLT...

    My volly FD has been using the 200 gpm at 75 psi nozzles for several years now. We tested just about everything on the market before settling on them. Personally, I could have been just as happy with a 15/16 or 1 inch smooth bore but these low pressure nozzles have worked out very well for us.

    My career FD uses this same nozzle with a 15/16 slug for our high rise packs on 1 3/4 inch hose.

    Have fun playing with them, more water, less work.

    FyredUp

  12. #72
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDtruckLt
    Hello,
    I've been reading this thread and have to ask, why do so many of you not like 1 1/2" attack lines?

    I dont know if its so much we dont like it, but I know in my case (and Im sure others) 1 1/2 is old technology and as such was replaced years ago. We havent had 1 1/2" for over 20 years. Im surprised to read about all the people that still use it. I had kow idea so much of it was still out there.
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  13. #73
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    From what I understand my dept. tried 1 3/4" hose before I was hired (15 yrs. ago or so) and didn't like it. I don't know why, maybe back to the "we have always done it that way" attitude. It seems like that mentality has just changed for us in the last 5-7 yrs. In fact we just yesterday switched over to a 800mhz. radio system , and we have a new chief starting in Feb.! This is why I am interested in hearing what y'all have to say about tour attack lines.

  14. #74
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    RFDTruckLT- Raleigh isn't the only department in the county that has switched back to 1 1\2. Bay Leaf FD switched back to it about 5 or 6 years ago on their crosslays. They did this because they found that it was easier to get 1 1\2 up to the 3rd floor and the attics (4th floor) of those mansions out there. I work in Garner, our cross lays are 1 3\4 set at 125 gpm and we love them because you can move around with them and still get a decent amount of water.

  15. #75
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDtruckLt
    I work for a fairly large dept. in N.C.. The company that I ride right now is not too busy(newer station), but the engine i just left (last fall) answered about 1900 calls last year. I will have to wait until tomorrow to give you exact numbers on working fires for the year, i'm not on duty right now. As a guess, we (my engine alone) probably had 10-15 "Jobs".
    No offense taken. That's why I asked the question, wanting to learn somthing.
    I have worked here for more than 10 years, long enough to know that some things are done because "that's how we've always done it" and that's o.k. for some things. Now that i have been visiting this site and reading what y'all have to say about alot of things I realize that there are other(somtimes better) ways to do things. I learned a long time ago if i don't ask i won't learn.
    Thanks in advance for your time.
    Sorry for the late response.......for some reason I couldn't remember where I posted.......

    Thanks for your info on your Dept. I can tell you that were I was a vollie FF and were I currentley work. There are also two different mindsets. When I started in the fire service in 1992 as a vollie....we were still using the Red Booster line and 1.5"....then when a new chief was elected....he got rid of all the booster line, used the 1.5 for nussence fires and upgraded to 1.75" . The reson being.....we were loosing buildings.....b/c the lines we were using did not have the output of GPM we needed. (amongst a few other things).

    Were I work....we use 1.75" line. We feel that an effective FF stream (1.75") is one that can flow 180gpm at 50psi with 3-4 men on the line....actually....2 on the nozzle team and 2 others to estimate the stretch, keep the line from getting tangled, and ensure smooth line advancement. A major factor to this idea is due to our operations based on a 6 story non-fireproof multiple dwelling and the amount of line needed, the nozzle, ad FL.

    We usually encounter heavy fire loads and colliers mansions (in area I work). The area I work in is mostly if not all immigrants from Haiti, Jamacia, Africa, and the DR and they keep us pretty busy.....just under 4800 runs last year.....which is the avg for us.

    As we all know, fire is much more intense then 10-20 years ago. Back in the day my job used the 54gpm Navy Nozzle.....and those "old timers" (I'm talking.....guys from the 60s) even say that its a good thing the job changed. And that's my point.....I would rather have that extra 1/4" so I can flow 180gpm....at 50psi (nozzle psi) on the 6 floor.

  16. #76
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    VinnieB, I can see where it is benificial for y'all to use the 1 3/4" lines. More water, smaller than 2".
    The volunteer dept. i used to run with used 1 3/4" hose and i liked it pretty good. After working here where we use 1 1/2" hose i really like it better for smaller fires and 2" for the bigger stuff.
    GFDLT1, what station are you working out of ? We run with y'all some on the edges.

  17. #77
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDtruckLt
    VinnieB, I can see where it is benificial for y'all to use the 1 3/4" lines. More water, smaller than 2".
    The volunteer dept. i used to run with used 1 3/4" hose and i liked it pretty good. After working here where we use 1 1/2" hose i really like it better for smaller fires and 2" for the bigger stuff.
    That's just it...what's a "small" fire. And how do you know when you get there? We wait for the truck to find it, and orders from the Engine boss as to were to stretch to......(unless its obvious, such as PDs and small MDs)...then we go. The way we work.....a small fire is one that can be handled with a can and 1 3/4" for precaution. But with regards to taxpayers.....even if the fire is "small"....the 2 1/2" is was gets pulled.

    We also do not use crosslays. Everything comes off the backstep. And we backstretch at fires. My company has 4 hose beds.....8 lengths of 3.5", 10 lengths of 2.5" filled out with 6 lengths of 1.75", another bed of the same...but with 8 lengths of 2.5", and a 2.5" bed of 10 lengths.
    Last edited by VinnieB; 01-27-2006 at 06:29 PM.

  18. #78
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    Waiting for the truck to find the fire is an option I wish we had. For us, 8 times out of 10 the engine is first on scene by at least a minute. The officer makes the call for the hose, and while he's doing his size up the firefighter(s) stretch the line into position. Once we get in we advise the second due engine what to pull.

  19. #79
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    RFDTruckLT- I am the Lt on Eng 1, A shift. I just got transferred there in Sept. I had been at sta 3 for previous 3 1\2 or 4 years.

  20. #80
    firefighter7160
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    Talking 150 feet here..

    We had 1 1/2 inch lines tell 2 years ago. Now we use 1 3/4 lines. I miss the old 1 1/2 lines. But the new lines are just as good. Are Dept. went with the hole, more water, the better thought. But what ever they give me to take in the house ill go with. Someone said a 2 inch line (dam) now thats getting up there. Id hate to have to get that in a stucture And move around with.

    Does any use a redline at structures any more????
    just asking.....

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