1. #1
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    Default need aerial help.

    other than sutphen does anyone build a rear mount platform on a single axel. with a spartan chassis?
    michael umphrey
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    roscommon,mi

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    Sutphen only builds mid mounts.

    Try Smeal or Ferrara.
    FTM - PTB

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    Default aerial

    Don't know about a platform but I believe that Crimson builds on a Spartan chassis.

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    Doesn't Spartan own Crimson?
    FTM - PTB

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    Default aerial

    i guess rear mount or mid mount doesn't matter, just single axel, and spartan and yes spartan does open crimson.
    michael umphrey
    captain higgins twp fire/rescue/ems
    roscommon,mi

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by mic409
    other than sutphen does anyone build a rear mount platform on a single axel. with a spartan chassis?
    Advantage Apparatus,LLC ( 800 ) 246-3511 sells rebuilt " Aerialscopes " on single or tandem axle Spartan Chassis at a price tag of around $ 400,000 & up!
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 01-13-2006 at 07:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mic409
    other than sutphen does anyone build a rear mount platform on a single axel. with a spartan chassis?
    Why do you want a rear mount platform on a single axel? Do you have a specific need? Height-Weight? A little more info would be helpful.

    www.ewfac.com

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    Metz will put a rear mount tower on a single axle Spartan or HME, but the Metz product is not a conventional aerial device by U.S. standards, and quite a few folks on here will probably be more than happy to tell you why.

    They're out there, people still buy them - they're more of a European style aerial. Whether or not it'll work for you, is up to you.

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    Default aerial help

    we are just tossing around ideas for a new pumper/aerial. just saw the sutphen with a platform, on a single axel. the truck we get either the one described or a quint will be the first our for structural fires in the village area, and the township, so manevurability is an issue.
    michael umphrey
    captain higgins twp fire/rescue/ems
    roscommon,mi

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    As often pointed out, with a tandem, the wheelbase is the distance between the front axle and the midpoint of the the tandem. It is possible to get a tandem axle truck that turns as tightly as a single axle

    Wheel Base, Cramp angle (degree that front wheels will turn) and overhangs from each axle can determine manuverablility (sp), and will have more effect than just whether it's single/tandem axle

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    Sutphen isn't real interested in building on a Spartan.They prefer to build on their own chassis due to "sole source" responsibility. As indicated earlier,Advantage will build one on a Spartan. If I remember right you can get up to 75'(Sutphen)on a single depending on how much water tank you want.I think 350 is the max although they MAY go to 500 gal,I'd have to do some research. T.C.

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    Default Hopefully Hepful

    I don't know if it is done anymore, but our department operates a LTI (which is now owned by Seagrave) on a Spartan Chassis with a single axle rear. This truck also has 500 gal h20 and a 1500 pump.

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    LTI is owned by American Lafrance.
    FTM - PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedic1006
    I don't know if it is done anymore, but our department operates a LTI (which is now owned by Seagrave) on a Spartan Chassis with a single axle rear. This truck also has 500 gal h20 and a 1500 pump.
    Poster was looking for a bucket or platform on a single axle, which is a pretty rare bird. I think all of the big guys will put a 75 foot straight stick on a single rear axle, but then you get the debate of 75 foot not being long enough, single rear axles not providing enough braking, rear tandems eating tires, blah blah...


    Sutphen has in the past (long ago) put their aerials on non-Sutphen chassis, and has fairly recently put engines on commercial and Spartan chassis. I wonder if they could be talked into putting an aerial on a Spartan. Ed? You around?

    2004 Spartan/Sutphen engine

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    Default Lti

    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedic1006
    I don't know if it is done anymore, but our department operates a LTI (which is now owned by Seagrave) on a Spartan Chassis with a single axle rear. This truck also has 500 gal h20 and a 1500 pump.
    If you need info on ALF Aerials (LTI) please check the link below.

    http://www.laddertowers.com/

    Have a SAFE weekend.
    Bert

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    801,We recently had the NE Sutphen rep,Ted,up to the station for a little chat.The issue of using a Spartan under the platform was brought up.While he didn't come right out and say they would NOT build it,he did stress that they REALLY prefer to use their chassis.The impression of our group was that building on a Spartan probably wasn't going to happen unless you went with a Advantage refurbed unit.About pumps I'm not sure as our interest leans toward a Quint. Again the dealer not corporate but I'm thinking they like the sole source route. T.C.

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    didn't Sutphen offer a Mack chassis about 3-4 yrs ago.?
    seems like it was the frame and a Mack engine.
    not sure if it was just for an engine or aerial both.

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    Why anyone would want a single axle aerial device is beyond me. I sone instances, the wheelbase on a tandem is not only shorter but also the tandem will out-turn the single as far as turning radius. Then there is the whole weight issue. Ask ALF/LTI, Pierce, Seagrave, KME & E-One if they will do a 500 gallon tank with a 31,000# rear axle. Chances are probably not. Once you get over 400 gallons, start thinking 33,500# rear. And along with that comes spilt rims due to the larger size tires required. Tandem axle gives you superior braking & handling over a single. It also gives you the flexibility to have a 500 gallon tank and not worry about how close you are to the GVW capacity. I have seen some tandem axle 75' & even some 100' units with 600 gallon tanks. Tandem is the way to go. If you are bent on a single axle, then get a 65' Tele-squrt or something similar.

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    Default alf

    i know they just built a 75ft quint on a single axel with 750gal. tank, and foam tank along with rescue equipment! it is a sharp truck.
    michael umphrey
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    Quote Originally Posted by mic409
    i know they just built a 75ft quint on a single axel with 750gal. tank, and foam tank along with rescue equipment! it is a sharp truck.
    An aerial device, with 750 Gallons of water ON A SINGLE SCREW? I dont think any apparatus engineer in his right mind would allow that to happen.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Once again, it sounds like a department is trying to use a quint as "do all". You need to decide if you want a truck with pump capabilities or an engine with an elevated master stream. Since you say this will be your primary structure unit, I would go with an elevated master stream, otherwise known as a "squirt".

    I say this as someone who is a quint supprter. My department runs a quint, as does all the other departments in my area. No "pumpless" trucks here. However, they are operated, staffed and equiped as truck companies. They are not used as primary supression units. The only have pumps and hose for that odd, once in a while chance they would be first in, as well as the ability to secure thier own water supply and pump their own aerial.

    Trust me on this, what your trying to do is not going to work as well as you think.
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    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff
    An aerial device, with 750 Gallons of water ON A SINGLE SCREW? I dont think any apparatus engineer in his right mind would allow that to happen.
    Uh, I belive Seagrave does it, maybe Rosenbauer...I've seen it..It's possible
    FF/NREMT-B

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    Default E-One

    Actually E-One will do a HP75 Quint with 500 gallons of water 115' ground ladder compliment plus loads of compartment space (E-One doesnt count ladder tunnels and bottle tubes as compartment space lie many manufacturers do). By using an extruded aluminum body and extruded cab they can offer all that on a 31,000 rear axle. Read my earlier posts about a Pierce 75' with a 33,00 single rear with TUBE tires. I will have actual proof of this in a few weeks as I will be down by the dept that has this truck. Just my 2 cents.

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    My department runs 2 Sutphen ladders, a 100' Tower and a 75' ladder. The 100' is BIG, very difficult to maneuver in tight spaces due to the added length of the bucket hanging almost 10' feet off the back of the truck. Sutphen's new SPH tower was redesigned to eliminate this problem and from what I have heard/seen it drives and maneuvers like an engine to bad we are stuck with our tower for another 10-15 years.

    Our 75' quint is slightly longer than our custom pumpers, carries a full complement of ground ladders but you sacrifice compartment space to carry that many ladders. 1000' 5" hose, 500' 2.5" hose and 5 pre-connects (4 cross lays and one in the front pumper) the trucks runs great the cab has plenty of room and handles like a pumper, the only down side is water, we only carry 300 gallons, so if you have good closely spaced hydrants then the 75 quint from Sutphen is a great option. I believe Sutphen can build it with a larger water tank but you again sacrifice hose and compartment space.

    In other departments I have worked with I have worked on specs with Seagrave, E1, Pierce and LTI (Before it was part of ALF). All of these manufactures are going to push you towards tandem rear axles if you want to carry 1000' 5", 500 Gallons of water and a heavy duty ladder. They all with build on a single axle but like other posts have said you will run into weight problems when you try to pile all your eggs in one basket.

    Personally if you want to carry big hose, water, tools and a good aerial you might as well go with a 100', tandem rear axle quint, and you may still run into weight problems.

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    Talking Mid-Mount Sigle Axles Work

    It would appear that there is a misconception that comparing a mid-mount 75' to a rear mount is apples-to-apples. Speaking from my experience with Sutphen, here is what I know. By utilizing a extruded aluminum aerial instead of steel they save weight. Then there is the whole steel torque box issue. A rear mount must be attached to the frame by a very heavy steel torque box to transfer the weight to the frame. It could weigh any where between 7-10,000 lbs. WOW. A mid-mount is bolted directly to the frame eliminating the heavy torque box. So, an aluminum mid-mount can easily carry 500 gal of water, 75' aerial and still have weight to spare. Ask any of the 100's of Sutphen customers out there with those units. They are built to last!!
    I have but one ambition in life and that is to become a firefighter.

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