Basement/Cellar Attack Line Size

[PaulGRIMWOOD]

Paul, thanks for the reply. What I meant for fog protection is using a narrow to wide fog pattern while desending the stairs. Again, I do not agree with this but I certainly have heard it mentioned a few times here and there.

I never did like that approach .... it never worked for me .... but then you speak to Navy firefighters who move down into lower level fires behind the protection of a wide fog pattern!

Some very good points being made in this thread.

[GFDLT1]

I think that when you are making an attack with either nozzle to the basement, that you don't open the nozzle till you get down and off the stairs. I would not go down the stairs spraying water. I apologize if I confused anyone into thinking that was what I was saying. I too agree with Paul that when using the fog nozzle that you use short bursts.

[erics99]

Some very good points being made in this thread.

Agreed, but certainly there are some more points that can be made!

Anybody else? How about the FDNY guys? Any tips or tricks for making the stairs and operating in cellar fires?

[VinnieB]

Agreed, but certainly there are some more points that can be made!

Anybody else? How about the FDNY guys? Any tips or tricks for making the stairs and operating in cellar fires?

Sure...I'll bite.....

It takes some serious ballz to make a basement....If you are going to go....then GO and GO fast. Make a loop with the line, giving yourself plenty of line to make a quick dash to the basement......then azzes and elbows to the bottom. It ain't gonna be pretty.....or easy. These jobs are definitly gut checks.....(and remember....if the truck is down there.....then you should be too)

I have heard of and done a bunch of different methods......hear are a couple...


-with a charged line at the top of the stairs.....feed the line to the bottom, until it stops......then 1 man....QUICKLY dash down the steps to the nozzle.....

-1 man w/ the nozzle and enough slack.....make a dash to the basement....and once there.....try to push a few feet in and to the side....lay on belly or back if neccesary.....make way for the other brothers.

Points...
-Keep the line to one side....try to keep the stairs as unobstructed as possible.

-Do get caught on the landing......thats the flue and it will give you a false sense of how the fire is going.....

-watch the corners.....kinking is really bad in basements....also...there are alot of things you, yourself can get caught on.

-protect the interior stairs.....its probably your only way out!!!!!


The way I see it.....it also depends heavily on your company and officers....experiance and ballz......I would do things that others may see as foolish or dangerous.....but I have 4 other guys that will be doing the same. And you can be sure that if 1 brother is "down there" then I will be too. Being a safty suzie isn't my stlye....nor is it the way I was broke in.......aaaa,...geeez now I am ranting.....

Stay Safe....

[GFDLT1]

Vinnie- I wouldn't say that you are ranting, just making some very good points for those of us who don't see a lot of basement fires. We don't normally see a lot of basement fires down here in the south.

[erics99]

Thanks Vinnie.

[VinnieB]

Thanks Vinnie.

Anytime Eric99.....

[firefiftyfive]

Those are some good methods Vinnie but no matter how you do it a basement fire can be a real pain in the arse. More often than not the bottom of those cellar entrances, especially the ones at street level are a disaster at the bottom. Hell I'm a relatively small guy and I have difficulty moving through all the stuff with the can or the irons. Not to mention half the time the steps are so shoddy that they break when you step on them. But like you said basically just have to get down there as quick as possible. Being in the truck; our company policy is that whenever we have a fire in the basement of a commercial building; we take the search rope with us and we work as a team. There is way to much stock and god only knows what else to be doing searches all over on your own. Find the fire quickly and get water on it. Other wise its off to the races. Most of the commercial occupancies in my area are located on the ground floor of the tenements so if you don't get it quick it can be a long tour.

[DugdogFiredog]

Anyone ever hear of a cellar nozzle? Guess not, haven't heard it mentioned in this thread. Anyway, I would suggest you attack with a line you can move and work fast with, 1 3/4". If you're lucky and have windows to the basement break them from the outside of the structure.

[VinnieB]

Anyone ever hear of a cellar nozzle? Guess not, haven't heard it mentioned in this thread. Anyway, I would suggest you attack with a line you can move and work fast with, 1 3/4". If you're lucky and have windows to the basement break them from the outside of the structure.

That's b/c a celler nozzle such as the Breslan takes to much time to set up on an initial attack. Cutting through the floor is an extremely time consuming task. And if that floor is made of concrete....good luck.

[DugdogFiredog]

Good point VinnieB