1. #1
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    Default NFPA and leather lids

    I need some help from anybody with written proof. A few years ago Cairns stated that the Natural Sam Houston N6A didn't meet the NFPA 1971-2000 compliancy. I need to know what years that was and also the piece of paper that states that.

    Next, I need some sort of information on if you remove the rachet system from your helmet does it lose its NFPA 1971-2000 compliancy?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Did you call MSA? Seems like a phone representative could help you out in a jiff.
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    I always thought that the biggest thing that determined if a helmet was NFPA compliant or not was the eye protection?

    I do agree with KEEPBACK call or email MSA and they can probably help you a whole lot quicker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PENNDEL
    I need some help from anybody with written proof. A few years ago Cairns stated that the Natural Sam Houston N6A didn't meet the NFPA 1971-2000 compliancy. I need to know what years that was and also the piece of paper that states that.
    Are you looking to burn someone for wearing one?

    First off, I'm not expert, but I thought that the N6A "nanturals" were covered with something like a clear enamel. Basically like a painted one, just clear, to let the tone of the leather come through. So, if that's the case, then it would be no less compliant than any other N6A purchaced with the same options etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by PENNDEL
    Next, I need some sort of information on if you remove the rachet system from your helmet does it lose its NFPA 1971-2000 compliancy?

    Thanks in advance.
    I can't see removal of the ratchet as being grounds to loose it's compliance. My first helmet didn't even have a ratchet, it didn't stop it from being compliant. I would think the ratchet is more of a "user friendly option" vs. a requirement. As long as it has a "complete" headband system, and sits in a postion like the manufacturer intended, I would think it's OK. As long as the suspension is there, with the impact cap, and faceshield, I would think it's compliant with NFPA.

    But, I'm no expert, and Cairns is probably the best place to call.
    http://www.sanantoniofire.org

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    The way it was explained to me a few years ago by georgewentCFI was that if you do anything to alter the helmets structure or opperation as it was shipped to you from the mfgr, the NFPA rating is known void. Atleast that is what i think he said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMikey
    The way it was explained to me a few years ago by georgewentCFI was that if you do anything to alter the helmets structure or opperation as it was shipped to you from the mfgr, the NFPA rating is known void. Atleast that is what i think he said.

    Yes, that is correct. Also, if something were to happen, the department and possibly a court will nail to the proverbial cross for altering your helmet. One thing about it, you can't make a helmet NFPA compliant, but you can void it.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMikey
    The way it was explained to me a few years ago by georgewentCFI was that if you do anything to alter the helmets structure or opperation as it was shipped to you from the mfgr, the NFPA rating is known void. Atleast that is what i think he said.
    If you alter anything in the way it fits or performs, you will void the compliance. For example, an American flag sticker on the helmet does not change its fit or function. Removing a portion of the suspension DOES affect the function, so it would void the approval.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    I also remember something about, that you can actualy send your helmet back to the mfgr or NFPA to have it re-certified or inspected to see if it meets the guidelines.
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    ---------------------------------------------------

    The light at the end of the tunnel has been temporarly shut off due to the current work load. The Mangement

    When all else fails USE DUCT-TAPE!!!

    My views posted in this fourm are my personal views only and do not reflect on any agencies that I am afiliated with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainMikey
    I also remember something about, that you can actualy send your helmet back to the mfgr or NFPA to have it re-certified or inspected to see if it meets the guidelines.
    I'm not absolutely positive, but I highly doubt this is true.

    The NFPA certification requires batch testing, which means that the testing process has to be on more than 1 helmet. This ensures that all helmets meet the standard, not just one special hand made one. The helmets that are sold and issued are not actually tested; the manufacturing process and materials are tested via the test batch.

    Plus, NFPA testing is destructive in nature. Helmets are destroyed and damaged intentionally to verify that they meet the protective standards required. Each test helmet has to endure only 1 test...that is, the helmet used in the no-melt/no-drip test is not used in the hot or cold impact test.

    Given the way the testing is set up, I don't know how a manufacturer could "recertify" an issued helmet.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    You CAN get Cairns helmets recertified. My vol company ordered rebuild kits for a number of 1000's and a rep came out, inspected them and placed new stickers in them. Of course they were rebuilt to spec and were checked to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halligan84
    You CAN get Cairns helmets recertified. My vol company ordered rebuild kits for a number of 1000's and a rep came out, inspected them and placed new stickers in them. Of course they were rebuilt to spec and were checked to that.
    I am not sure how this would work...a used fire helmet could not be verified to meet the impact resistance. I also don't know why someone would want to rebuild a helmet...the NFPA standards specifically accept "grandfathered" products. New standards only apply to new sales and production.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, because I can't say that with certainty. I'm wondering if this was something other than a recertification, though...maybe a recall/repair?
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    I have a N5A from 1995. It does not have a ratchet headband. Can I add one? I see the fire store sells them but I am confused on how to install it.
    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...headband_only/

    I went for a few days of not wanting this helmet anymore. After being issued a 1010 I want my leather back.
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    I would imagine that if refurbishing your old helmet would cause it to loose compliancy then there would be no firestore.com selling replacement parts for helmets.

    NFPA guidelines for helmets include tests for eye protection, crush resistance, puncture and a few others. I doubt that the ratchet system is part of NFPA compliancy as older N6A's did not have them and were compliant along with some older 1010's.....I could be wrong.

    As far as Natural.... read the fine print near the pictures below the brass eagle on this web page...
    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...guration_nfpa/

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    I was wondering if I install the eagle below on my N6A would it make it non NFPA compliant?

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm?pID=5

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdfd504
    I was wondering if I install the eagle below on my N6A would it make it non NFPA compliant?

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm?pID=5
    I think you missed this in the item description:

    Please note: Bronze eagles are ornamental only. Not designed for active structural firefighting helmets. Does not meet NFPA and OSHA standards.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

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    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
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    I saw that part and that is why I posted. If I put that on a new N6A then it won't be NFPA or OSHA compliant correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanjb
    I also don't know why someone would want to rebuild a helmet...the NFPA standards specifically accept "grandfathered" products. New standards only apply to new sales and production.
    Exactly...which is why I've gone out on eBay several times over the last few years and stocked up on New Yorkers made before the ratchets were required. To the best of my knowledge, equipment is NFPA compliant as long as it meets the standard in force when it was manufactured, and I now should have enough non-ratchet New Yorkers stocked up to get me through to "retirement" - and maybe further. Planning. It's all about planning.

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