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  1. #1
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    Question Advantage Apparatus LLC.

    Any fire departments have a " Remanufactured " tower ladder purchased from the Advantage CO. We are interested in how there built ,Total cost , likes or dislikes , after sales & service !


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    I don't know of anyone around us that has an apparatus built by Advantage.

    We "looked" at them some time back. The company president (I think his name is Bob Fornier) is well in touch with what a vollie department needs from a truck - especially what a rural department that operates in a cold climate needs. He was responsive with our RFQ, but it didn't quite match what we were looking for.

    If we ever can budget for an arial, I would take a hard look at one of his remanufactured arialscopes.

    If it fits within their niche, I would imagine they are one of the best bang for the buck outfits out there.

  3. #3
    Forum Member dragonfyre's Avatar
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    We talked to them regarding refurbing our AerialScope but couldn't get the right answers. At the time they had not really done one yet and we didn't want to be the guinnea pig.

    I know of one other company that also talked to them but decided to go with a new AerialScope instead.

    Even though it cost a bit more we decided to have Pierce redo ours. Pierce took the whole assembly apart and did a total refurb not just a remount.

    Photos at our website, www.birdsborofd.org
    Steve Dragon
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    We too checked with them. As I recall these were some of the issues: used FDNY trucks put on new chassis, aerial rebuilt by the old Pierre Thibault plant (unknown current name) in Canada, bodies built by Metalfab in New Brunswick Canada. End result: how to ruin a Scope! By most accounts Thibault was scary before they went under, and Metalfab is just pure low budget junk. When you don't want to ask you town for more money Metalfab can build you a truck. I wouldn't want to have to have a problem fixed with that kind of run around. After pricing out the replacement and maintenence costs we were able to prove to our council that the per year cost of a new aerail tower was cheaper in a 25 year plan than going used.

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    pierce does a good job with scope refurbs id check them out fi i were u

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PierceGuru
    pierce does a good job with scope refurbs id check them out fi i were u
    Step away from the computer, put down the kool aid and get yourself checked into rehab as soon as possible....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    why? its a nice rig, ask birdsboro

  8. #8
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    PierceGuru...

    Are you an endless loop tape or a phonograph record with the needle stuck in the same track?

    We get it. You are a Pierce fan. Get over yourself and stop posting them as the answer to every apparatus question asked.

    Honestly I couldn't care less how good of a truck they build when they price themselves out of the market for many. Don't bother to hit me with better engineering, and all your other blather. Its getting old and frankly boring.

    FyredUp

  9. #9
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    Default Advantage Apparatus LLC

    I agree with RFDACM if this company is buying X FDNY and then having someone in Quebec (X Thibault? Might be CET Booms) rebuild the aerial device and then Metalfab who's a small regional builder in the Maritimes and IMHO has no idea about building large aerial apparatus bodies then I'd NOT walk but RUN away. I can only imagine the legal liablity with the divided responsiblity. I saw the website and wondered how they could sell these at that price and now I know (See learn something new everyday!!!)

    If the aerial device is being rebuilt by CET (X family members of Thibault) this is the same co. that was taking 30+ year old X Montreal Thibault ladders and beefing them up, painting them and then even adding a prepiped waterway to an aerial device that had never been designed for one and putting it on a new cab and chassis and in some cases even with a rebuilt pump and selling it to the small VFD's who didn't have the $ for a new Aerial. BUT-then I'm told the government and ULC stepped in and said you can't do it anymore and try and sell it as a new apparatus..Go figure!!! The gov't also has now limited the age of any aerial device used by a FD in Quebec to avoid this sort of BS.

    I'd be verwy verwy careful....

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    FYI: They have them for $380,000 in magazine ads.
    FTM - PTB

  11. #11
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    Aerialguy1 I believe you are correct that they use CET Booms. I knew they told us there was a Thibualt connection. (why you'd tell anyone that I don't know). Again, long term replacement costs and maintenance proved that a new tower was cheaper over 25 years.

    Buying used does not give you a truck set up for your department. When inveting 400K into a project I'd seriously consider if the truck meets your needs or you're changing the way you operate to buy what you can afford. What's the warranty on the advantage aerial?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM
    Aerialguy1 I believe you are correct that they use CET Booms. I knew they told us there was a Thibualt connection. (why you'd tell anyone that I don't know). Again, long term replacement costs and maintenance proved that a new tower was cheaper over 25 years.

    Buying used does not give you a truck set up for your department. When inveting 400K into a project I'd seriously consider if the truck meets your needs or you're changing the way you operate to buy what you can afford. What's the warranty on the advantage aerial?
    What is ( CET ) ??

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    Many points to correct or at least comment on.

    First off.... I was the one from our department that spoke to Advantage. The gentleman is VERY knowledgable. He really does know scopes. No doubt about it. I just think that he deserves credit for his knowledge, even if you don't like who he chooses for his work.

    Second.... Would someone explain to me what makes it so bad to rehab an ex-FDNY truck? I have seen what they do with them (knock down windows, doors, whole walls, etc.). But they do that because they can. The trucks can and do take it, every day. Our truck is an ex-FDNY truck. It was actually sent to a retirement station early due to being so aggresively beaten to death! That said, I think it turned out just fine.

    The point is this: An aerialscope consists of hydraulic cylinders and box metal sections. The corner jacks have cylinders mounted in metal sections, the 'batwings' or 'outriggers' in the middle have two box metal sections that slide apart and serve to the ground - extension is accomplished by a cylinder. The booms (on most of them) extend by a cylinder and raise by cylinders. The units rotate by a hydraulic motor into a reduction assembly. When you re-build those cylinders completely and replace the hydraulic rotation motor, replace the wear pads the booms slide on, and other things that are cosmetic (because I have already listed the really important things)... why is that a used truck? Why isn't it new? What is different between a new and used aerial boom? The tolerances are the same - the refurbed boom is brought to new standards, regardless of who builds it - Pierce or Advantage.

    You guys worry about who Advantage sends their work out to, but let me ask you this... does the mighty Pierce or the mighty Seagrave do everything in house? Or do they send some of the work out and just accept full responsibility for it (still being a sole-source provider)? BOTH Pierce and Seagrave send their cylinders to THE SAME SHOP to rebuild them when an Aerialscope gets rebuilt. Who's to say Advantage doesn't use the same shop?

    Food for thought.
    Jon

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    I have to agree the Advantage Apparatus guy knows alot, no doubt. My issues are with CET (Thibiault) and Metalfab. If Advantage can guarantee sole responsibility than that's great. But having Metalfab pu the body on a Scope is like taking your Ferrari to a Yugo shop for service. Where I am, you can't throw a cat and not find a department that doesn't have Thibiault horror stories.

    EX-FDNY trucks? Properly rebuilt they've proven to work well. Still they are used hard and who knows at what point which part may give up. That being said, how many other aerials see as much re-build re-use? Aerailscope seems to excel here.

  15. #15
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    The newest Advantage Apparatus to be delivered is a 1991 Mack Cf cab & chassis 75' Aerialscope rebuild with a 1500gpm pump, 200 gal tank !
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 05-15-2007 at 07:08 PM.

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    There seems to be an awful lot of overhang behind the rear axles.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepiper1 View Post
    There seems to be an awful lot of overhang behind the rear axles.
    Looks about "right" for a scope...
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
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  18. #18
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    Default Egress

    Why does the egress section in back need to be so big? Seems like you could use some of that for compartments...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipatrol8 View Post
    Why does the egress section in back need to be so big? Seems like you could use some of that for compartments...
    That's pretty wide. We went so far as to eliminate all the egress ladders from the officers side to gain compartment space. And what's up with that kitchen sprayer on the gun?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    That's pretty wide. We went so far as to eliminate all the egress ladders from the officers side to gain compartment space. And what's up with that kitchen sprayer on the gun?
    Looks like alot of waisted space with the 4ft steps , the rebuilt Mack 75' scope costs about $ 370,000 from a memo I had seen . It is a good deal if your department can not afford a new $ 850,000 aerial apparatus . They will only build on a " new Spartan chassis " from now on!...
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 01-15-2007 at 11:50 AM.

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