1. #1
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    Question Pierce Dash engines good or bad?

    My engine committe is considering a Pierce Dash engine. Any problems? If your department has a pierce, what year and model? How's service?

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    Why didn't you just put both questions in one post?

    Outside of 1 Sutphen and 2 ALFs, we have 3 Pierce Engines, 1 Quint, and 2 trucks.
    2002 Dash pumper
    2003 Dash 100' Platform
    2004 Dash quint-75'

    The guys are very happy with the trucks. Biggest complaint has been lack of legroom for the officer. The TAK-4 is worth it's weight in gold for the ride. Most maintenance problems have been minor, bigger ones were due to decisions made on our end-like wearing out brakes quickly on the single axle quint. There have been service issues with our dealer-which led us to buying the POS Sutphen.

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    We currently have (3) Pierce trucks, (1) Engine, (1) Tanker, and (1) Tower. They are very very reliable, and we have had no issues on any of the trucks. They have never missed a day of service.

    The only issues we had were with the things Pierce bolts onto the trucks, ie. generator, light tower.

    Here is the engine.
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    Here is the Tanker. Sorry I don't have the pics of the Tower with me.
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  5. #5
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    Question

    The most reliable fire apparatus built today are ( Pierce , Seagrave , smeal , Sutphen , Aerialscope ,) If you are looking to save money on your next rig take a look at ( E-one , Kme , Central States , Ferrara ,ALF ) .

  6. #6
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    Dash yes, Saber.....god..stay away...
    FF/NREMT-B

    FTM-PTB!!

    Brass does not equal brains.

    Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.

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    My department is 99% Pierce, 6 Quantams and 12-14 Dash models. At first I didn't really like the Quantam's but after riding and drivind the newer Dash's. I'll take my old Q anyday of the week. There is absouletly no room for the driver or the officer in the Dash chassis and little more in the rear (even with a raised roof) The Q has plenty of room for everybody. The Dash's have also had a number of electrical problems with almost all of the units. The biggest downside to the Q is it seems to be more top heavy than the Dash's and the fold down steps can be a pain in the rear at times.

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    http://www.emergencyrigs.net/viewpho...=218&Size=med_

    Pierce is becoming a favorite out here, Allot of the department's have had very few problems with them

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    My department just purchased 4 new Dash chassied trucks. 3 engines and 1 75' quint. So far we have been pleased with all of the trucks. They have the TAK-4 suspension, 450 hp Cummins diesels (Quint has 500 hp), 2000 gpm Waterous pumps, hydraulic generators, etc. They definitely drive well and perform well. We have had a few minor issues that have been taken care of. So all in all we're satisfied I think...

  10. #10
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    Default Ours is holding-up very well

    We had minor issues after delivery. No more than any other mfg. The multiplex chicken little fears are just that. Our multiplexed dash is awesome. Leg room is a little tight. Let's face it, it's a tight cab. We have seating of 8, but it is a much better ride with 6. We went with the detroit and the adjustable engine brake. You barely use the brakes when stopping. No service issue in NJ either.
    You have all seen this engine before. Here's the link:
    www.photosite.com/deepwaterfd

    Good luck,
    Mark

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII
    The most reliable fire apparatus built today are ( Pierce , Seagrave , smeal , Sutphen , Aerialscope ,) If you are looking to save money on your next rig take a look at ( E-one , Kme , Central States , Ferrara ,ALF ) .
    just curious - is there any empirical data to back this up? Other than the rampant accusations on this forum?

    A multi answer
    Pierce makes a good truck
    like all manufacturers, they have their niche

    the biggest problem I have with pierce is not pierce itself, but the Pierce Groupies

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    Saber - No
    Dash - No
    Quantum - Hell no, unless you have no trees.
    Lance - Nope

    Arrow XT - Yes. By far the best chassis Pierce makes.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

  13. #13
    capfiremedic
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    I don't have any experience with the newer units from Pierce, but we have a pumper that was donated to us after KATRINA... It's an '88 Pierce (formerly Milford CT Eng 11). I't far superior to our E-1 in all respects. We bought the E-1 new in '01 and it's a decent rig, but the Pierce is a shining star for an 17 year old piece of equipment... Runs like a turpentined dog, and pumps all day long without a hiccup. And plenty of room in the cab for my 6'5" frame.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by STATION2
    Saber - No
    Dash - No
    Quantum - Hell no, unless you have no trees.
    Lance - Nope

    Arrow XT - Yes. By far the best chassis Pierce makes.
    Curious choice of chassis ... since the Arrow XT is nothing but a Dash without multiplexing (and those big HVAC boxes on top), what makes the Arrow stand out above the Dash?

    As for the Quantums, I ride a Quantum at work, serving a first due area that is covered with 200-year-old oaks. No problems with trees since 1999...

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    The choice of the Pierce Arrow XT is for a few reasons, some of which you mentioned:

    The A/C boxes on top: Easier and, most importantly, faster to fix as they are for the most part self contained. Gets the assigned company back in service faster in their normal rig. This hopefully will help keep them out of a reserve rig.

    Multiplexing: Exactly. One less thing to screw up. In a few years, after it is perfected, then maybe.

    Interior: Standard interior as fireman proof as is currently made.

    Access: More field service friendly for repairs to electronics, lights, sirens, etc. located in the cab.


    Quantums: I am sure they give good service, but the overall height difference, in my opinion, could be problematic in this part of the world. The interior is more roomy than alot of other chassis but they gain that by raising the cab. This makes for an unusually high step getting in, and more importantly, when exiting in full PPE and SCBA with a limited field of vision. This negates the interior room increase. Now throw an aerial on top and you have a rig that is far taller than necessary for the mounted aerial.

    Just some thoughts.
    Last edited by STATION2; 02-06-2006 at 09:46 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    From a KME post by me -
    "It is not always greener on the other side of the fence"
    I don't think it matters what you get, you are gonna have some problems. Door latches and roof leaks seem to have been our problems on our Pierces. Paint is another issue we have had, but that may be due to our truck wash soap. The Pierces we have are easy to use.
    - We have a
    98 Dash Engine - paint problems and door latches and window cranks and roof leaks.
    02 Lance (I think) Engine - Can't think of much right off hand with this one.
    00 Dash 105' Ladder - Suspension sucks bounces like a beach ball on steroids, Pike pole holders keep falling apart. Some paint fade and paint bubbling around latch handles. Some roof leaks but seems to have been fixed.
    05 Dash (I think) 95' Tower - To new to tell

    All are Detroit Diesels - minor issues with a couple valve cover leaks.

    Pic of our new Tower 2 in a KME post
    Last edited by F52Westside; 02-07-2006 at 09:11 AM.
    Stay Safe & Bring 'em Home!
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    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and not that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

  17. #17
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    Multiplexing: Exactly. One less thing to screw up. In a few years, after it is perfected, then maybe.
    Multiplexing was first approved by SAE in 1988, perhapse a career isn't a long enough time frame. Multiplexing is more difficult to repair by untrained techs. I support the KISS line of thinking and would rather see individual runs, but I'm not the industry.

    Back to the topic. We have a 90 Arrow, about a 95 Lance and a 04 lance and I love them all. Our latest rig the 04 Tower had a bunch of problems but now seems to be working great and it will be running calls longer then I will.
    Not the best picture but here it is.
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    Boxalarm 187- I think you are thinking of the Enforcer being similar to the Dash. The Arrow was a complete new design about 3 years ago and shares very little with the Dash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sven73
    Boxalarm 187- I think you are thinking of the Enforcer being similar to the Dash. The Arrow was a complete new design about 3 years ago and shares very little with the Dash.
    I'll kindy disagree with you on this. When the Arrow XT was designed, it was based on the existing Dash cab and chassis, meaning that the same motor, transmission, and pump options are available on both models. The exterior skin of both the Arrow XT and Dash are the same, minus the standard barrier doors on the XT and the roof-mounted HVAC.

    The Enforcer has more limited motor and pump options than the aforementioned chassis.

  20. #20
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    If you look at the Pierce literature, they say that the front doors on the XT are 2" longer than those of the dash allowing for more room for those up front. That being said, I seriously doubt they share that much of a common structure.

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    Boxalarm187- The size of the engine and trans is not the issue. If it were then the Lance and Quantum would have to be considered as based on the Dash, even though they are radically different.

    The Arrow has many unigue features- a/c system, cooling system, door height and width, wiring system, beefed up suspension system in the front, reinforced engine tunnel, dashboard, officer's seating area, cab tilt ( 90 degrees ),even the tow eyes are different.

    I suppose if Pierce wanted to they could adjust the Enforcer to accept the larger engines, but they already have the Dash to do just that. I think its called market segmentation or something like that.

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    I stood on the chassis line at pierce and was told (and shown) that the Arrow and Dash are the same structure. I am fairly confident (not 100%) that the Enforcer has the same skin and frame as the Dash, with limited driveline setups.

  23. #23
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    Default differences

    The Enforcer and Dash are basically the same except for the engine tunnel. Other than how the tunnel sides are bolted to the jig, the Arrow is very different from the Dash/Enforcer. The interior, doors, engine tunnel, width and height of the cab, the roof (especially raised roofs), the list goes on and on. Without having the time too look each one over side by side when they are being made, it would be easy to say the are similar. Very few if any parts are interchangeable from a Dash to an Arrow. I see both of them on a daily basis...I should know.

    stay safe.

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    Thanks 28,

    I guess the guy I talked to mis-spoke. We were talking about all three at the time, so it was an easy mistake to make. I appreciate the correction.

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