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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
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    Question Vehicle Grants - Command/Utility Vehicles

    Kicking around some ideas for the '06 grant program...Has anyone had any luck getting grants for a command or utility vehicle? Not talking about a big command post motor home thing, but a Suburban or pickup truck for department use.

    Any thoughts on this, particularly for a small, rural department who runs a little over 300 calls a year? Our current budget is maxed out paying apparatus note (for our new rescue truck), plus all the other expenses of running a fire department, plus putting some aside for a new station. Currently we have only engines and a rescue truck, and we have never had any kind of utility or command vehicle.

    This has been a goal of mine since I became chief, mainly because of the large amount of running around I and others have to do, both within and outside the district, burning our own gas and putting wear and tear on our personal vehicles. There are several times a week (not even counting responding to calls), on average, when somebody from the department is having to go out of town to drop off a pager for repairs, pick up a piece of equipment, bring the lawnmower to the other stations to cut the grass, that kind of stuff. It would sure be nice to have a vehicle to run all these errands.

    Obviously, it would also be great to have a command vehicle for incident use and to transport additional personnel to the scene, bring dirty hose back to the station, etc., minimizing the amount of POV's at the scene.

    It seems to me like everywhere else I go, every little volunteer department (some smaller than ours) has at least a pickup truck or something. We have NEVER had one. I don't think anyone ever considered it a reasonable thing to go out and get.

    So, has anyone had any luck with getting a simple utility vehicle (either an SUV or pickup) through the Fire Act grants? Some of you guys who are grant reviewers....would this kind of project have enough value to be considered, or would I be wasting my application? Thanks for the input.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"


  2. #2
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    Chief Leblanc,

    The type of vehicle you are talking about will not be funded. Under the 2006 workshop PPT presentation vehicle matrix, a command vehicle is a Priority 3 for rural classification. History has shown that only Priority 1 vehicles are being funded.

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    Since 2003 anyway, the Heavy Rescue I picked up for my department in 2002 appears to be the last P2 funded. So even with the increased number of reasons we've needed the truck since 2002, it wouldn't get funded again anyway if I tried. Too much competition.

    Lots of small vehicles (cars, pickups, etc) are available from Government Surplus, especially DOD. For the use you're looking at from your description, that would be the least expensive way to go. A little paint, some striping. Good to go.

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    Chief,

    Check with your local PD or Sheriff's office. They may supply you with a used vehicle that is going to be replaced. Typically they are high mileage, but if they are like our PD they are maintained. As Brian pointed out a little paint and a stripe you are ready to go. At least it's a vehicle that can be used as a command vehicle and for those errands that you talk about. If you're lucky they may even have a truck or Suburban that's getting replaced.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle
    Chief Leblanc,

    The type of vehicle you are talking about will not be funded. Under the 2006 workshop PPT presentation vehicle matrix, a command vehicle is a Priority 3 for rural classification. History has shown that only Priority 1 vehicles are being funded.
    Thanks for the reply. That's pretty much what I needed to know. I know of some outlets for surplus vehicles, so I am still considering going that route. (state surplus has some pretty good deals and they have an auction in Baton Rouge every month....public safety agencies don't have to compete at auction, they can purchase outright before they go on the auction block)

    Buying new would have been nice, though...

    Thanks again.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

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    DOD surplus has all manner of suitable vehicles you can obtain thru your state forester (FEPP program). Civilian model pickups, SUV, vans, cube vans, bus. Including pickups with utility bodies. Just a question of your flavor and how far you are willing to drive to pickup a free vehicle. Many early 90s vehicles available at present. All will be automatic and anything 3/4t or larger will usually be diesel. As you are in du South you have your choice of mil bases in easy range (not the case up North).

    My/our choice was a 4x2 crewcab. It took a few months until I located one near by (a base within a couple hours that had what I wanted). 1988 Chevy 3/4T crewcab diesel automatic with 85000mi. Will serve us well for many years for utility duty and towing our cascade system. Lean towards AF units as they tipically get a bit better maint and the USAF throws away good usable vehicles by a calendar schedule (age vs miles or condition).

    We certainly have depts in our area to snooty for this, but have enless time to cry over what they don't have. FEPP is a good inexpensive and underutilized equipment/vehicle solution for beer budget FD. If you are interested in this act now. In the Mar-Jun time frame DOD is closing/consolidatng the surplus yards from 60 some to about 15 (longer travel distances for us users).

  7. #7
    Forum Member Not2L84U2's Avatar
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    neiowa,

    What is the contact information. Does each state have their own? Would this be the same as the FEPP? I contacted the Illinois Dept of Natural Resources about a month ago and the gentleman I spoke with told me there wasn't much available and that they were working on putting together a new program that was going to use surplus DoD and GSA vehicles for donation and would give a better selection of equipment. He said that Kentucky was going to run the pilot program on this and that we should expect IL to be able to participate in it some time in early spring. Any idea if any of that holds water?

    Thanks,

    Ryan
    Last edited by Not2L84U2; 02-02-2006 at 03:25 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not2L84U2
    neiowa,

    What is the contact information. Does each state have their own? Would this be the same as the FEEP? I contacted the Illinois Dept of Natural Resources about a month ago and the gentleman I spoke with told me there wasn't much available and that they were working on putting together a new program that was going to use surplus DoD and GSA vehicles for donation and would give a better selection of equipment. He said that Kentucky was going to run the pilot program on this and that we should expect IL to be able to participate in it some time in early spring. Any idea if any of that holds water?

    Thanks,

    Ryan

    Yes EVERY state, thru their forester can obtain DOD (or GSA) surplus thru the FEPP program for loan to FD. And, apparently, in Il they are (typically) worthless as tits on a boar hog. The "gentleman" from DNR is full of bull excrement. Right now, in the truck there are 365 trucks from pickup on up. And there are many GSA surplus vehicles also available.

    You can also obtain (with title/ownership) thru your state fed property office, every state has one. Most charge you for the equipment/run a 1/2assed business selling inventory that they get for free. See:
    http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/con...sic.jsp&P=FBC1

    What's "NEW" in FEPP is that DOD is closing/consolidiation many of there yards in this springs. In Il you may have a problem that fraud/abuse of the DOD system by the cops is under investigation. Likely one reason the Great Lakes yard is closing. I know crooked gov't in Chicago/Il is hard to believe.

    The other BIG change is that DOD is now rolling out an upgrade in priority of requests for FEPP. Already in startup in Iowa/midwest (and I think IL) can req equpment at DOD priority level (same as what the cops have been able to do). Means may be able to get for FD the better quality vehicles. The vehicles that the cops in Chicago/Il have been taking (and then selling for their donut fund).

    What are you looking for I'll do a quick check to see what I can locate that might reasonably meet your needs. Dang good chance I can find something of decent quality. I'll send you the info req then you tell your POS state guy "Get me this _________, I'll arrange transport". You have to do some work yourself to make the system work.

  9. #9
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    Default another option

    Contact your local utility - many of the superviosrs have Suburbans, Tahoes, etc - becaue of the PPE they have to carry in addition to maps and records.
    my company even has an Emerg Response group - each member outfitted with the equivalent of a chief's vehicle - right dwon to the rear cab box and board and light & radio console so it can serve as command station during ICS or other event.

    if they replace them on a regualr basis as we do - you may be able to get something realtively new, with high miles, but outfitted

  10. #10
    Forum Member Not2L84U2's Avatar
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    Looking for a 3/4 ton or greater vehicle. Pickup, SUV, doesn't matter as long as it can tow a 36' RV trailer (Fire Safety Trailer). The shorter the wheel base the better. Makes it easier to move the trailer since some of our people aren't the best at towing and moving vehicles with trailers. Also need something that will be capable of having trailer brakes hooke up to it. I think that is pretty much any vehicle though right? Other than that, those are the basic requirements. Thanks Neiowa for all your help. You know a great deal more about what is going on than the "gentleman" I talked to.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not2L84U2
    Looking for a 3/4 ton or greater vehicle. Pickup, SUV, doesn't matter as long as it can tow a 36' RV trailer (Fire Safety Trailer). The shorter the wheel base the better. Makes it easier to move the trailer since some of our people aren't the best at towing and moving vehicles with trailers. Also need something that will be capable of having trailer brakes hooke up to it. I think that is pretty much any vehicle though right? Other than that, those are the basic requirements. Thanks Neiowa for all your help. You know a great deal more about what is going on than the "gentleman" I talked to.
    How about a 1999 Chevy C3500 4x2 Dually crewcab, utility body w/high topper. Likely AF surplus. Will be Diesel Auto Stated to be in good inside and out w/a couple door handles that need repair. Located in Colorado Springs, Co. If your forester is on the ball he can now request (Freeze). Truck is in DOD status (the 1st "priority/listing level). There will be a lot of "buyers" for this truck. Just what you need for tow vehicle I'll take a look for what might be closer to Il.

    For this truck tell the Forestry guy to req (Now/immed/no moss on feet/no dust settlin/it will turn into a pumpkin (likely already has))

    TRUCK,MAINTENANCE 2320010768379 FE461360130050
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    How about a 1995 FORD F-800 50,316 mi (or 2nd with 84,137mi) Crewcab Diesel Automatic. 28000lb GVWR. 2x available Good condition. DOD status Minot ND. A REAL trailer towing vehicle

    Do something interesting with the back end, rehab? Or you could remove and sell the cargo box and hydraulic lift gate. Install a small water tank? or a pickup or flatbed for a support/crew truck.
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  13. #13
    Forum Member Not2L84U2's Avatar
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    neiowa you are great! I will call him first thing in the morning tomorrow about the C3500. I think I could get some local autobody shops to donate some time and paint and make it match the trailer. Ahhh, the wheels are already turnin. So there's no money required right? We just request them to get the vehicle for us, offer to do the paperwork and to go pick it up? Thanks again for the help.

    BTW, the F-800 looks great, but don't know where we would put it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not2L84U2
    neiowa you are great! I will call him first thing in the morning tomorrow about the C3500. I think I could get some local autobody shops to donate some time and paint and make it match the trailer. Ahhh, the wheels are already turnin. So there's no money required right? We just request them to get the vehicle for us, offer to do the paperwork and to go pick it up? Thanks again for the help.

    BTW, the F-800 looks great, but don't know where we would put it.
    They will likely require you transport anything from where it is, to where you want it. But perhaps IL give them some $ to use. In Iowa our forester does not even have a budget to operate the program at all.

    Now don't be going and holding your breath on this particular truck. Likely to be many request for it as is pretty new (most similar are in the 1988-1992 vintage). An you're likely the only guy reading this thread that would like a similar truck. If it works out don't forget the Stanley, IA FD.

    Just remember anything thru FEPP is a loan from the Feds to state forester to you. You can't dispose of the equipment/vehicle. Your done with it it goes back to the forester for reissue. But, if for example, when modifying for fire dept use you don't need a topper, dump bed, cargo box, winch, etc you can remove and dispose of.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Not2L84U2's Avatar
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    I've been trying to get a hold of our DNR all day without success. I've called and left messages, but no reply. So guess I'll have to wait until Monday.

    Understand about picking it up and that it's a loan. That's fine. Again, not holding our breaths, but it sure would be nice. Would be a nice little road trip too. According to MapQuest it's about 15 hours from us one way.

    So we can make modifications as we see fit correct? Idea would be to talk to a local scrap yard and see if they would help us out with a standard bed and then talk to a local paint shop and see if they would paint it for us. Then some local custom shops to get some shiney wheels and other custom items. Would that be acceptable? Again, hopes aren't too hight, but working on the "what if" scenario.

    Is there another website that I can go to and search for items in case this one doesn't pan out?

  16. #16
    Forum Member Not2L84U2's Avatar
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    So how do you search for items that are available through the FEPP

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    Where can i get the Information about these vehicles for are blazer we have now is all but rusted out if you will please email the site to me Crocker_fire_figter@msn.com thanks Jhall1520

  18. #18
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    Default Surplus Military Equipment Rebuilding

    I would like to find out if in the process of acquiring FEPP vehicles, FD's have problems finding shops that repair or fabricate vehicles to the departments specifications.

    I have recently acquire a vehicle thru GSA which was an M-880 Ambulance (Dodge) which was used as a pumper with the addition of a pump and water tanks.

    How much does the department usually allocate for labor to do such rebuilding? Is it based on T&M or flat labor rate.

    If a department wanted to do this but did not have a mechanic available, what would be an acceptable amount to charge.

    Any responses would be appreciated.

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