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  1. #1
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    Exclamation High Rise Evacuation/ Entry system

    My name is Arnold Iacoviello jr.

    I am a part time inventor and I have developed a system for High-Rise buildings.

    This is in the early stages of development and all patent aplications have been filed.

    I need your help to raise awarness of what this system has to offer. I am on an ASTM Interational Committee to establish testing standars for my controlled descent devices; however there is alot of other obsticals to overcome. IE Building Codes, OSHA, ect...

    Please visit the website I setup to illistrate the systems capabilities and direct every one you know there so we can raise awarness of what the possobilities are. I am not selling anything. This is strictly information at this point.

    www.escape-rail.com

    E-mail me your comments.

    "Remeber September 11"

    Thanks. Arnold Iacoviello JR

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    In all honesty, thanks for the laugh this morning.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I'm glad you find humor in my efforts to help Fire Fighters.

    A more productive post would be better. Are you capable of that?

    What do you see wrong with it. All the prototyes work.

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    I think you will have a bunch of kids dieing as they try it out when there is no emergency and fall of to their deaths.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Ok good point.

    Now we can start to discuss the issues. No need for sarcasms.

    The storage and access restrictions can be addressed in the code. There are plenty of ways in wich to restrict unauthorized use. There will of course be those that will use it in some unauthorized fashion; however if the desender is installed correctly they will not fall to there death by the way. ( the descender is attached to a repelling harness. The testing standard has it that the attaching hardware is to be tamper proof.)

    There are alot of issues that will need to be address such as windows that when opend will set off an alarm, Special exit windows and others.
    This is what I need to know from you all.

    Keep an open mind please

    You can also use the track to get out when conditions inside deteriorate beyond control. How are you getting out when your exit is blocked.
    Your are more likely to need it than civilians.

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    Ok,

    a "rail" system that will sit on the sides of a building exposed to all kinds of bad weather throughout the years, and expecting it to be in fine working order when needed, is something hard for me to grasp as realistic.

    People standing in an orderly line, waiting their turn, while the building is filling with smoke and heat, is something hard for me to grasp as realistic.

    People being willing to step out a window, onto this thing they have never used, up x stories, is something hard for me to grasp as realistic.

    From the ground, building it as you go, is something hard for me to grasp as realistic. How does it attach to the building to keep from falling over? Or do you have to drill holes and set anchors as it goes?

    Is that better?
    Last edited by Bones42; 02-02-2006 at 01:14 PM.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default BEEP BEEP BEEP civilian chick alert .....

    I think I liked the escape slide idea better.

    I agree with Bonesy ... how long would it take to carry .... say 3 victims and 1 firefighter to the ground and then back up again for the next batch? Everyone's just going to wait patiently in line? Could the steel rails be compromised if any one of those floors had hot enough fire? What happens in a case like WTC where some of the floors are completely demolished? Is the whole system then compromised? Plus, as a civilian chick I'm not sure I'd feel very confident about zipping straight down the side of a high-rise in a small cart. Sure the Bronco type rescues take a long time too (or as I was asked by a firefighter captain I knew in Calgary when I lived on the 16th floor - why would you want to wait all that time for the Bronco to get set up?) but I still think I'd rather have one of those pluck me off the balcony than ride this rescue rail thing.

    Now the window washing idea seemed a bit more plausible.
    September 11th - Never Forget

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    Yes much better.

    1.) Per the ASTM standard it will be Stainless Steel or Aluminum. I am going with stainless steel. It needs to meet long term installation standards. Already addressed.
    My design can operate in very contaminated conditions as it is an open pin-rack design.
    It needs to meet wet, cold, ice, heat and other conditions established in the standard that is being considered by ASTM International.

    2.) Also per the standard Training is the responsibilities of the manufacturer. I will have a page on the website for information on it's use when production is in place so anyone can refresh them selves. A sample track can be set up to allow building occupants the ability to be familiar with it's use during training. Training is the key to have things run smoothly just like any other drill.

    3.) They will have used it on a sample track. I though about in the design. The unit is parked when it is installed and you can feel it bear you weigh, giving some tactile confidence. Then the brake is released and you descend at a controlled rate. This is only used when there is no other way out. I don't want jumping to be the only way out we see this all the time when people are trapped.

    4.) Yes it is anchored to the building. The anchor requirements are covered in the testing standard. It will go up like laying railroad track vertically. Building construction will dictate the required fasteners and the Standard will dictate load requirements.
    fast temoprary fateners can be used in a pinch and then permenant fasteners installed latter.

    Does that help you understand that this realy can work??

    Lets keep shooting holes in it and that will help me find design flaws.

    Thank you.

    Regrads Arnold.

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    You have your own Hydraulic descending unit you don't have to wait for any body.

    You step into the harness reach out the window insert it, Feel it bear your weigh and when completely out release the brake. It does not "ZIP" down the Standard is restricting the rate of descent to About 6 feet per second.

    They will be stored in enough quantity to cover the maximum occupancy of the floor. That is still being kicked around.

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    Here are the two problems or reasons why this will never be approved for use in the building codes in the US.

    1. Look at the video regarding the office building fire in Russia that is posted on this forum. There is zero chance that people who are trapped above the fire in borderline tenable positions are going to wait for this and/or have the patience to use it.

    2. The overwhelming majority of the people who will inhabit the high rise buildings will be physically incapable of using this contraption.

    Please note: There is not one iota of sarcasm in this post. This product will never see the light of day in the US.

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    What about visitors to these residences or offices that have this "escape system" installed?

    Arnold states that it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to train people in its proper use, and that residents of these buildings will receive training to become proficient at it. Does that mean that every guest or visitor to a building has to go through a training course prior to being admitted to the building?

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    Here is an example. A building I used to work in invested heavily in a number of "Evacuation Chairs" designed to allow the carrying of physically handicapped people during the evacuation of the building. I went through the training. By the time I got the chair out of the cabinet, deployed it, found someone to help me, dodge all the people coming down the stairs, and then inch this chair down the stairs trying not to topple it over, I would be better off to have one guy grab him by the ankles, I'll grab him under the arms and away we go. It was a waste of money on an impractical solution to a once in a lifetime problem.

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    Sorry I did not finish this completely. Yes any major building damage like that of 9/11 will damage the track; However the adjacent sides may have survived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Here are the two problems or reasons why this will never be approved for use in the building codes in the US.

    1. Look at the video regarding the office building fire in Russia that is posted on this forum. There is zero chance that people who are trapped above the fire in borderline tenable positions are going to wait for this and/or have the patience to use it.

    2. The overwhelming majority of the people who will inhabit the high rise buildings will be physically incapable of using this contraption.

    Please note: There is not one iota of sarcasm in this post. This product will never see the light of day in the US.

    Ok I did not see the clip I will look for it.

    This is not a fix all there are going to be situations and conditions under wich it will not work. There are building that it cannot be installed on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LtDPSJFD
    What about visitors to these residences or offices that have this "escape system" installed?

    Arnold states that it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to train people in its proper use, and that residents of these buildings will receive training to become proficient at it. Does that mean that every guest or visitor to a building has to go through a training course prior to being admitted to the building?

    That is another good point. we are addressing that in the standard and that has not been worked out completely.

    I plan on using the website, and there is no reason the building can't post information for visitors and have it available for them if they want it.

    Also the building owner can have a sample track permanently installed for repeated training at the users leisure.

    Great questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Here is an example. A building I used to work in invested heavily in a number of "Evacuation Chairs" designed to allow the carrying of physically handicapped people during the evacuation of the building. I went through the training. By the time I got the chair out of the cabinet, deployed it, found someone to help me, dodge all the people coming down the stairs, and then inch this chair down the stairs trying not to topple it over, I would be better off to have one guy grab him by the ankles, I'll grab him under the arms and away we go. It was a waste of money on an impractical solution to a once in a lifetime problem.

    This will be quicker. Like putting on a pair of shorts and pulling adjusting straps.
    We have not settled on a harness yet.

    Also the actual exit procedures will need to be studied and adopted into the training so that there is no accidental fall during the exit process and that is also still being worked on.

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    Just a note:

    The cart is intended for First Responders not really to carry out rescues.

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    So you intend to have enough harnesses of different sizes to accomodate, short people, tall people, thin people, "not so thin" people?

    Doesn't stainless steel have a minor tendency to react to weather changes, like extend a little in heat and skrink a little in cold? I'm thinking that would have a great impact on mounting this to a building.

    And you are kidding yourself to believe that anywhere close to everyone will look at a website (or anything else for that matter) on how to use an escape system before they enter a building. If they live there, maybe. If they work there, doubtful. If they are visiting, forget it.

    How do you account for the guy on the 15th floor starting down while the guy from the 20th floor is just above him?

    How do you account for the guy that steps out on the 20th floor, then freezes from fear of heights, and now has everyone on his floor and above stopped? Or do they simple pile on top of him?

    What if the unthinkable happens and someone's descender gets stuck? How do those coming down behind them stop and not crush that person?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aji549
    Just a note:

    The cart is intended for First Responders not really to carry out rescues.
    HUH?????

    I feel like I just entered the twilight zone
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

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    HMMMMMMMMMMMM

    Call me sarcastic (cause I donít care) but what does a person in a wheelchair do? I think this thing needs to meet some ADA criteria here.......

    Opps, what about the blind guy will there be Braille to feel for the rail?

    I think buildings are safer then homes overall to begin with. Most buildings have more then 1 stairwell to exit. And GeorgeWendtCFI (being an investigator) im sure will agree the safest way to keep a building safe is to keep the emergency exits clear and clean. Have regularly scheduled fire drills with your local FD, and invite the local FD or fire marshal down to inspect the building. There is no need for rails. This thing is more dangerous then good IMO!!!
    You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the duct tape.

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    Arnold welcome to Firehouse Forums. It's always good to have a dream...
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    I'd rather just see fire sprinklers installed in the building. Proven technology and no building occupant action needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aji549
    I'm glad you find humor in my efforts to help Fire Fighters.

    A more productive post would be better. Are you capable of that?

    What do you see wrong with it. All the prototyes work.
    For one I do not believe speaking like this is an effective way to conduct business.

    Second, like Bones stated, most people will have fear of heights and I bet you could show this to 100 people and 90% of them would say they would not step one foot on this thing. The safety issues associated with this are too risky. You say your prototypes work? Have you tested this on actual buildings? If so how many stories and was wind a factor? How is this secured to the building and how can we be ensured this is not going to fall. What if everyone on the entire floor decides they want to go at the same time? Can it handle that kind of load? Who is going to stop the scared victims who decide they will just grab on and shimmy down from 70 stories?

    You do realize that current buildings will have to be completely retro fitted with escape doors etc while this is being installed and the amount of $$ and risk of structural integrity to the building this may cause?
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
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    If you look at this video, you are testing this on the side of a one story home. I do not feel this is adequate testing for something of this magnitude!

    http://www.escape-rail.com/AVIFILES/prototype_new.wmv
    "Training doesn't make you a good fireman, fighting fire makes you a good fireman"
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozzelvfd
    HMMMMMMMMMMMM

    Call me sarcastic (cause I donít care) but what does a person in a wheelchair do? I think this thing needs to meet some ADA criteria here.......

    Opps, what about the blind guy will there be Braille to feel for the rail?

    I think buildings are safer then homes overall to begin with. Most buildings have more then 1 stairwell to exit. And GeorgeWendtCFI (being an investigator) im sure will agree the safest way to keep a building safe is to keep the emergency exits clear and clean. Have regularly scheduled fire drills with your local FD, and invite the local FD or fire marshal down to inspect the building. There is no need for rails. This thing is more dangerous then good IMO!!!
    Actually, the best way to keep a building safe is:

    1. Prevent the fire
    2. If you have a fire, have smoke detectors to tell people about it and have a sprnikler system ni place to put it out3. Don't waste many on equipment that-guaranteed-will not work.

    Here's another question...based on your own website...

    Smoke, heat and products of combustion rise. No question about it.

    Fire on the fourth floor of a fifteen story building. Autoextending from the windows. Bad fire.

    How does your little contraption judge which people are more deserving of rescue? Fourth floor? Fifth floor? Sixth floor?

    You should probably stop wasting tmie on this. If you are an inventer, why don't you work on a project that will detect a fire more quickly? Cheaper. Why don't you work on a lightweight, easy to install, cost efficient sprinkler system? Design something practical instead of something that will never, ever, ever be used on a single building (that you haven't designated as a test facility) in this country ever.

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