Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    Posts
    29

    Default Ground Ladder question

    Looking for feedback on the type of ground ladders everyone is operating with.

    On you truck companies.
    Aluminum ladders

    Do you use "solid style construction" or "truss style construction"?

    Using Alcolite or DuoSafety?

    We are specifying new aerial apparatus and are evaluating ground ladders. We are looking to find lighter ground ladders as long as they are safe and durable. We currently only have one truck on a 1 alarm fire, therefore most of the time only two firefighters are on the outside truck, and our current 3 section truss style ladders are very heavy, durable, but heavy.

    Solid style construction especially with Duo Safety ladders are alot lighter. Is there anyone using 35ft & 28ft 2section solid style Duo Safety Ladders?

    Thanks in advance
    Jim


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber jfTL41's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    573

    Default

    We use a mix of solid and truss beam ladders, the straight 20' ladder and the 2 section 35' are truss I think the rest are solid.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber Halligan84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Blackwood NJ, USA
    Posts
    816

    Default

    We use solid beam duo safety. In a pinch you can find guys to carry and throw the 2 section 35 by themselves.

  4. #4
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,783

    Default

    We are using all truss style, aluminum ladders. I am not sure whether they are alcolite, or duo safety, I will check at work in the morning.
    To me, the issue is not with the ground ladders, it is entirely with the newer roof ladders, specifically the twenty foot. They are significantly heavier than older versions, making them more difficult to use on a roof, not impossible, but more difficult.
    We use a variety of roof ladders, including fourteen, eighteen, and twenty foot lengths. Our ground ladder lengths are twenty-four, thirty, thirty-five and now thirty-nine feet.

    So again, I have not noticed a significant increase in the weight of the actual ground ladders, but rather in the roof ladders. I will check tomorrow and post what I find.

  5. #5
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    we too are a mix .......of both makers and both types.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  6. #6
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Halligan84
    We use solid beam duo safety. In a pinch you can find guys to carry and throw the 2 section 35 by themselves.
    We also have the solid beam duo safety.

    We had a fire about 10 years ago where the one of the guys on the first due rig threw a 35 footer all by himself and made a rescue over the ground ladder (adrenaline is wonderful thing!)

    He was honored with the Firefighter of the Year award by the local Masonic lodge.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    St.Louis, MO. U.S.
    Posts
    19

    Default Duosafety

    They seem to be the industry standard. Good ladders and last for ever. We have had ladders in service well over 30 years and still passed their annual with flying colors. We have a mix of truss and solid. You'll usually find the larger the ladder it seems to go to truss not always but usually.
    Good luck to ya...

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    956

    Default

    We are all Duo-Safety, I will agree with Jasper that I as well have noticed an increase in roof ladder weight. We have a mix of truss and solid beam here.
    FF/NREMT-B

    FTM-PTB!!

    Brass does not equal brains.

    Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.

  9. #9
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,570

    Default

    Aluminum, solid construction, AlcoLite. Our 35' is 3 section, rest are 2 section.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    375

    Default

    We also use solid alum. AlcoLite ladders. Our roof ladders are 16', and our 35' have 3 sections. The 35' is quite managible with 2 people, both carrying and then raising. I am not a big guy, so I would hate to have to carry it by myself.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    383

    Default

    We use both Duosafety and Alcolite. After learning from our mistakes we will only purchase Duosafety from now one. The Alcolites must be made from lead impregnated aluminum. Way to heavy compared to the Duosafety's.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    584

    Default

    On the topic of ground ladders...we often have to put up a portable ladder to a window in a narrow alley or driveway between two buildings, sometimes with as little as 5 feet separating the buildings. We would often use a basement window as a butt, as our OVMs are usually alone (Im not interested whether you think that is right or wrong)
    We have been drilling alot latley on a new method of raising a portable ladder in a narrow alley with nothing to use as a butt. We take our 25-30' utility rope out of our pocket...tie one end around the bottom rung...run the rope to the tip of the ladder, underneath it (on the ground). Now you lift the ladder (parallel to the building) As soon as the ladder is chest high, you step on the rope and push the ladder against the rope to make it taught. Now as you raise the ladder, you walk the rope like a highwire act. As long as you keep the rope tight under your feet, it will act as your butt-man. It works really well, and we've got the operation down to well under a minute, from start to finish....another option for guys who like to be prepared for anything.
    Last edited by MattyJ; 02-13-2006 at 12:05 PM.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ
    We have been drilling alot latley on a new method of raising a portable ladder in a narrow alley with nothing to use as a butt. We take our 25-30' utility rope out of our pocket...tie one end around the bottom rung...run the rope to the tip of the ladder, underneath it (on the ground). Now you lift the ladder (parallel to the building) As soon as the ladder is chest high, you step on the rope and push the ladder against the rope to make it taught. Now as you raise the ladder, you walk the rope like a highwire act. As long as you keep the rope tight under your feet, it will act as your butt-man. It works really well, and we've got the operation down to well under a minute, from start to finish....another option for guys who like to be prepared for anything.
    Interesting technique....although it's really sad that someone was forced to come up with it....
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  14. #14
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,783

    Default

    Interesting technique....although it's really sad that someone was forced to come up with it....

    I disagree, it’s not sad, it‘s a reality. Who knows what will be found on the fire ground. Being able to put a ground ladder up, by yourself could save a civilian life, or perhaps even another fireman.
    I’ve seen, and put ground ladders up by myself, not to mention been taught in recruit school. This looks like a very interesting “trick”; it is certainly something I had never thought of.
    The only reason why this was a "forced" idea, is improvising on the fire ground. It's simply another "tool" in the "tool box".
    Last edited by jasper45; 02-13-2006 at 02:24 PM.

  15. #15
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    I disagree, it’s not sad, it‘s a reality. Who knows what will be found on the fire ground. Being able to put a ground ladder up, by yourself could save a civilian life, or perhaps even another fireman.
    I’ve seen, and put ground ladders up by myself, not to mention been taught in recruit school. This looks like a very interesting “trick”; it is certainly something I had never thought of.
    The only reason why this was a "forced" idea, is improvising on the fire ground. It's simply another "tool" in the "tool box".

    I like it! Another example of a jake using his head to improvise adapt, overcome, and survive!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    956

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ
    On the topic of ground ladders...we often have to put up a portable ladder to a window in a narrow alley or driveway between two buildings, sometimes with as little as 5 feet separating the buildings. We would often use a basement window as a butt, as our OVMs are usually alone (Im not interested whether you think that is right or wrong)
    We have been drilling alot latley on a new method of raising a portable ladder in a narrow alley with nothing to use as a butt. We take our 25-30' utility rope out of our pocket...tie one end around the bottom rung...run the rope to the tip of the ladder, underneath it (on the ground). Now you lift the ladder (parallel to the building) As soon as the ladder is chest high, you step on the rope and push the ladder against the rope to make it taught. Now as you raise the ladder, you walk the rope like a highwire act. As long as you keep the rope tight under your feet, it will act as your butt-man. It works really well, and we've got the operation down to well under a minute, from start to finish....another option for guys who like to be prepared for anything.

    that's freakin sweet....I will have to try this. Mostly 24'? I would assume it would work with a 35' too.
    FF/NREMT-B

    FTM-PTB!!

    Brass does not equal brains.

    Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA USA
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Thanks for all the info so far. Rope trick is good idea.

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pfd4life
    that's freakin sweet....I will have to try this. Mostly 24'? I would assume it would work with a 35' too.
    I've done it with 24' extension and,16'.and 20' straight ladders...hav'nt tried the 35'...It should work, and would probably work much easier if you were to tie off the other end to a substancial object like a car or fence. We "test" our guys at putting up the 35' solo...using the building as a butt...it is tough but can be done with the right technique...the taller guys usually have less of a problem. At a job, we would always rather use 2 guys to raise the 35' though, but nice to know you could do it if need be.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Interesting technique....although it's really sad that someone was forced to come up with it....
    My point was, that it's too bad that everyone's so shorthanded these days that guys have to "improvise" a way for one man to do what should be a two-man job.

    How many of you, when you went through Firefighter I or the fire academy or wherever you got your training, were taught this technique? I'll bet you weren't, because it's supposed to be a two-person job.

    How many departments out there respond with a two-person engine company, where the driver/operator has to engage the pump, mask up, and become part of the initial entry team? Shouldn't we be leaving an operator at the truck, minding the pump panel? I believe so, but there are departments out there, unfortunately, for which this is a luxury.

    How many departments are forced to surround-and-drown on fires that could have been handled with an aggressive interior attack, simply due to lack of manpower?

    Just another example of how we continue to find ways to do routine jobs with inadequate manpower.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  20. #20
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,993

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ
    We have been drilling alot latley on a new method of raising a portable ladder in a narrow alley with nothing to use as a butt. We take our 25-30' utility rope out of our pocket...
    Very cool... that's the first practical thing I've learned on here in a long time.
    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
    Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
    Click this to search FH Forums!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 01-25-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-26-2005, 10:24 PM
  2. ground ladder training
    By jake15 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-20-2004, 04:11 PM
  3. Quints
    By imtxff44 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-29-2003, 12:16 AM
  4. quint concept
    By mattqc99 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-25-2003, 11:34 AM
  5. ground ladder operation
    By scubateam in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-27-2002, 02:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts