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  1. #1
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    Default Tools in the Cab

    Are there any NFPA standards that mention tools being mounted in the cabs of apparatus? If so, could anyone possibly provide the wording to the standard.

    Thanks

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    Oh. I thought this thread was going to be about bozo officers. Sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Oh. I thought this thread was going to be about bozo officers. Sorry.
    Who says it is not. Most state laws require the tool driving and the tool in the front seat to be secured with a seatbelt.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire
    Who says it is not. Most state laws require the tool driving and the tool in the front seat to be secured with a seatbelt.
    I believe there is a NFPA guideline that states "NO playing with your tool while driving to the scene". That's all I have to say about that
    Last edited by THEFIRENUT; 02-06-2006 at 12:06 AM.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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    Bozo officers, not completely, more just a curiosity question....everyone has tools riding where they shouldn't though.

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    I don't know of any specific requirements from NFPA but there is not supposed to be any unsecured equipment or flammable liquids (including power tools using fuel) in the passenger compartment. The flammable liquids usually are not much of a problem but most fire apparatus I've worked on have had alot of stuff in the cab that could be a problem in an accident.

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    Anyone have a copy NFPA 1901-03 that they could post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORTff
    Anyone have a copy NFPA 1901-03 that they could post?
    If they post it, they will be commiting a copyright infringement.

    Why don't you buy a copy like everyone else?

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    Also try 1901 10-1.7, I believe this specifically addresses tools. Should cover the 9g force test requirements for mounts.

    Also might be able to find more information by contacting PAC Tools. We had their equipment mounts installed in our compartments and for 1 set of irons in the cab on all or units.

    www.pactoolmounts.com

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    Default Common sense?

    Might just be me, but do you really need a standard/guide/etc to tell you that unsecured tools in the cab of a vehicle is a bad idea?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Regardless of the standards, nothing bugs me as much as seeing rigs with every tool mounted in a body compartment. This service is about lives, having your tools in a compartment or scba in compartment costs us valuable time. Consider having an open compt under the rear seats that the cab door when closed will cover the end, then you can step out of the rig and grab your hooks, halligans, (if you grab one of those stupid closet hooks please just step out in front of the next vehicle you see) and be off to work. Most manufacturers will also add small compts. under the cab floor, space permitting these can be used for tools and extinguishers still allowing decent acess without going back to the body, rolling up a six foot roll up to get to the top shelf where the tool is mounted in a hundred dollar bracket securing it from ever being removed. Once again JMHO! Sorry for the Rant

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    George, I asked because I need assistance, if you don't want to provide it....don't. I'm looking for this because I need some information. I don't care if you pm it to me or email it to me or whatever. I'm not going to go out and spend money on something if it's readily available. You can't tell me that you contact the production company everytime you tape something off of tv do you? So really, it's not that big a deal, but thanks.

    OFDFireman, thank you for the assistance.

    jftl41, exactly! The powers that be don't seem to agree and they don't want ANY tools in the cab. So when we pull up to a job, everyone is running around opening every compartment (because half of them don't really know where the tools are to begin with). This ends up slowing us down in addition to making us look like untrained and pretty clueless. I'm writing a proposal (hence the need for the information in question) to properly mount a can and a set of irons in the cab. Need people to revert back to thinking like firefighters not wannabe lawyers...or just not thinking at all.

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    The tool on my shift rides in the DC car.



    George is right, buy your own copy of NFPA like the rest of us have to. And Bones is right as well, you should know enough to secure EVERYTHING in the cab, NFPA code or not.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

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    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

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    Everybody on this site spends half their lives quoting NFPA, preaching NFPA, siting NFPA standards, until a guy comes on who actually gives a s#!t what nfpa says and wants to know more - then everyone dummies up and tells him to buy a copy. Nice. I've seen plenty of posts with nfpa ***** linked or cut and pasted into it when it is used to support some stupid argument, but god forbid you do it to actually help someone. I couldn't care less what nfpa has to say, but if I had it I'd post it for you FORTff.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Everybody on this site spends half their lives quoting NFPA, preaching NFPA, siting NFPA standards, until a guy comes on who actually gives a s#!t what nfpa says and wants to know more - then everyone dummies up and tells him to buy a copy. Nice. I've seen plenty of posts with nfpa ***** linked or cut and pasted into it when it is used to support some stupid argument, but god forbid you do it to actually help someone. I couldn't care less what nfpa has to say, but if I had it I'd post it for you FORTff.
    I hope you feel better.

    Posting a small section of a text and then giving credit is distinctly different than obtaining an entire copy of a fairly lengthy standard that is copyrighted by circumventing the copyright laws. It would unprofessional and unethical for someone to post copyrighted material in that fashion.

    I didn't say that he was wrong. I didn't say that he was not to be commended for looking to make his apparatus safer. But pure motives are not an excuse for obtaining bootleg copies of a copyrighted document.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    I hope you feel better.
    A little, thanks for asking.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORTff
    Anyone have a copy NFPA 1901-03 that they could post?
    Just for S&G's I decided to see if 1901 was under revision, sometimes you can read the proposed new revision and get what your looking for.

    Well it just so happens that NFPA is currently providing FREE access to NFPA 1901-03. I have no idea how long this will last, but here's the link I used to get to it today.
    http://www.nfpa.org/freecodes/free_a....asp?id=190103

    The viewer system they use will not allow for any copy, cut, pastes, or download of the standard, however the specific reference you are looking for is 14.1.11.2 - In short anything in the crew area must be in a bracket or enclosed in a latched compartment - either of which must be able to withstand a 9G longitudinal impact and/or a 3G impact in any other direction.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
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    Nobody secures everything in the cab. Are your helmets secure? Radios? Misc. bs thats always floating around? You think if you roll it your scba is going to stay in those cheesy clips? Some of you guys carry an entire hardware store in your coat pockets - are your coats secured when not in use? Personally, right or wrong, if I am on the hydrant I will have the gate valve and both hydrant wrenchs in the back with me. You only have couple of minutes to get water and I'm not going to waste it running around the engine. The trucks are even worse. Everyone has their tools inside with them ready to go, and usually the two 5 gallon cans as well. It's unrealistic to have everything secure inside if you are going to effectively and quickly go to work.
    Last edited by ChicagoFF; 02-06-2006 at 11:38 AM. Reason: spelling
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    ChicagoFF, I agree and appreciate what you've said. I could personally care less about what the NFPA's opinion is of tools in the cab, common sense should dictate what should and should not be secured. Regardless, in an attempt to make our apparatus more firefighter friendly, I was looking for the info. to provide to the powers that be so that hopefully we'll be able to make some progress. Some of the places I've been, they didn't care about NFPA 1903, they had tools all over the cab, and they were some of the best firefighters I've met. They were the best for one simple reason, they knew the job and they were worried about the job and getting it done fast and properly. That's key and I'm afraid we lose track of that to often.
    As for the NFPA reg's, I didn't realize it was so excessively long. I finally was able to obtain the needed information thanks to N2DFire. I'm just looking for a favor and to try and save a few bucks because it's quite unnecessary for me to go out and pay even more money for an over priced document to the NFPA who already makes stupid amounts of money for next to nothing.
    Thanks for all of you who helped.

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    For all you NFPA guys who are soooo worried about rollovers. Two questions...

    1. If this is such a hazzard why aren't we wearing 5 point restraints and crash helmets with NASCAR style safety measures? Screw tying everything down I want a rollcage in the rig...Petty bar and all!

    2. Who most often gets into rollovers? At what rate per 1,000, 10,000 or even 100,000 alarms?

    Once again rules made up by chiefs from depts that might see a fire every two months and they try to impose it on everyone as if it is the best course of action... I'd rather follow the advice of experienced firemen who see fires every few days, weeks, over those who see them every 3-4 months.

    Have your tools easily accessible and not locked in cabinets...under multiple restraints...etc. The value of having the ability to get off the rig and go immediately to work is immesurable.

    FTM-PTB

    P$- If the NFPA is charging sooo much money for their standards...are they really in the business of keeping firefighters safe....or are they in the business of selling firefighters their version of safety rules?
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-06-2006 at 12:18 PM.

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    LOL, at any given time you might find a TNT, Halligan, 2 Axes, Sledge, 6 Ft Hook and any other personal tool people like to carry.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    For all you NFPA guys who are soooo worried about rollovers. Two questions...



    2. Who most often gets into rollovers? At what rate per 1,000, 10,000 or even 100,000 alarms?
    My guess is Bubba Chuckwheat and the wacker crew from upper strawbottom......and wackers in thier supped up chevets..... I camw up with a formula for this.....I think I'll call it the VinnieB Theory......



    (Frequency of Call+Type of Call)+(Ego-Experiance)/[% of Erection*Wackerness)=Probability of Rollover




    Once again rules made up by chiefs from depts that might see a fire every two months and they try to impose it on everyone as if it is the best course of action... I'd rather follow the advice of experienced firemen who see fires every few days, weeks, over those who see them every 3-4 months.

    A-MEN TO THAT!!!!.....but...I bet the saftey sissies have something to say about this......oh the suspense....


    Have your tools easily accessible and not locked in cabinets...under multiple restraints...etc. The value of having the ability to get off the rig and go immediately to work is immesurable.
    Yeah...but how are they supposed to win all those pretty trophies come parade season? God forbid you have the basic tools easily accessable.....heck they might chip the paint and dent the body......


    P$- If the NFPA is charging sooo much money for their standards...are they really in the business of keeping firefighters safe....or are they in the business of selling firefighters their version of safety rules?

    I always wondered the same thing.......
    Last edited by VinnieB; 02-06-2006 at 03:35 PM.

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    1901-03 $45 Yup, that's a budget breaker.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    If the NFPA is charging sooo much money for their standards...are they really in the business of keeping firefighters safe....or are they in the business of selling firefighters their version of safety rules?
    The NFPA is a private, for-profit, corporation. Agencies buy their codes and standards. That is the business they are in. They do not try to hide it and they do an awful lot of good for the fire service worldwide.

    Sounds like you crybabies who do not want to be told what to do because you know better just have a bug up your butt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    1901-03 $45 Yup, that's a budget breaker.
    Try something like $550 for all codes pertaining to firefighting. If they were sooo concerned with our safety why charge money at all? My whole point is their concern is far from what is safe and what makes the most sense. It is what costs us more money and makes them more Cent$.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- Look how upset certain people and groups got when the firefighters stepped up and made 1710 into what the fire service wanted and not what the typical players in the NFPA wanted. It isn't about us...it is all about them.

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