Thread: Fire gear

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    Default Fire gear

    I am new at writing grants.

    My question is does anyone have a narritive for fire gear I can use to get started. We are in need of about 50 sets. Any help would be GREAT you can e-mail it to

    kmoulton@zonetfire.com


    Thanks and be safe.

    Kevin Moulton
    Assistant Chief
    Zoneton Fire District

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    Kevin - I've got a few that people have sent to me to post on my web site for others to learn from. www.firegraphics.org

    - Brian
    Brian P. Vickers
    www.vickersconsultingservices.com
    Emergency Services Consulting
    Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
    Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

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    fire41108,

    I sent you a copy of our PPE narrative the other day. Just let me know if you recieved it. The first attempt with the posted email address was returned undeliverable. I resent it with the profile email. Good luck.

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    I sent you a copy of our narrative. I hope it helps.

    Brian - I sent it to you too incase you wanted to post it to help others.

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    Got it, thanks. I'll stick it up in the morning.

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    Sent you a copy of ours this morning good luck.
    Training does not make perfect. Training makes permanent!

    IACOJ probie

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    Kevin - I've got a few that people have sent to me to post on my web site for others to learn from. www.firegraphics.org

    - Brian
    Kevin - the grant request for Ferrum VFD on Brian's site is the one I wrote so if you have specific questions about the "What's" & "Why's" of something I wrote - please e-mail me.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

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    All infor was great helped me out alot. Now does anyone have one for SCBA's we are going to try to get 40 SCBA's and 30 sets of gear. Do you think thats to much?

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    Depends. Some departments are not competitive when they ask for both, so depending on your assessment compared with other departments.

    You can only ask for 1 SCBA per seat on an apparatus, unless you have 2 person pumpers in which case it's 4. If you have 40 seats, great, but if you only have 30 members (hence the 30 sets of PPE), then they're not going to give you SCBA when no one is there to wear them.

    - Brian

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    We have 54 active vol and 7 paid we only need 30 sets to make all members 100% compliant. Thats good to now cause I was going to ask for 40 packs we have 36 seats but if I can add the county haz-mat truck that has none and our dept is tye one that response in it that might get my 40 that might be pushing it tho. so maybe 36 packs and 4 RIT kits. What do you think?

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    If the county truck isn't owned by the department then you can't get packs for it, unless it's a county fire department of course.

    If you have no RIT kits, 1 because it will be considered a new mission. And again, depending on your stats you may need to go with either PPE or SCBA. Money is low, competition is tighter so projects need to be tighter than in prior years.

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    In regards to the hazmat truck. Is it your responsibility to drive it to a specific location in the county or are you also responsible for supplying the technicians?

    In any case, I would stick to the 36 SCBA's for your department. The county should be supplying the appropriate equipment for the hazmat truck. I think it might be a difficult sell to outfit a vehicle you do not own.

    What is the issue with the SCBA's? If, the issue is that they do not meet current NFPA standards, have you explored alternatives such as upgrading. This is a very cost effective measure. This is the route we went with, which is in the PPE narrative that I sent you.

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    80% are 8-9 and with the New NFPA 1981 statndared comming it would be better to replace all than to spend thousand's of dollars now to retrofit them and then turn around again in a few years and get new ones or what ever

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    Actually most retrofits I've looking into are right around $1000 without changing psi or to composite bottles, so compared to buying new ones there's a 3+ to 1 cost benefit factor to an upgrade. Might want to look at that since the goal is NFPA compliance, and upgrades meet that. There is no merit associated to meeting standards that do not exist. After all, it could change from what it proposed right now, and the 2007 edition could be identical to the 2002 edition. Other than making CBRNE a part of the requirement, there's not much left to add to an SCBA. PASS is already integrated, buddy breathers, RIT connections, HUDs are already in there, what else can someone come up with other than maybe GPS locator which would price them out of 95% of the departments in the country?

    Again, depending on your department's situation, that's a pretty large $ project you're proposing. You might not be statistically competitive for that much of an award. At about $3-4K per new SCBA, you're at $108K-$154K just for the SCBA, compared to $36K for an upgrade. Knowing Bugle's level of expertise/success with these things also, that's probably the reason he's recommending upgrade also. Remember, NFPA compliance is the goal and replacing under 10 y/o SCBA is not a funding priority.

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    ok great info cause besides the scba and gear I'm going to try for a exhaust system for our bay. we dont have a properly woking system in the bay and we are adding to our station for a live in program and 24 hr firefighters. what do you think my chances would be for 30 sets of gear 15 helment, retro fitting scba's and exhuast system?? I'm new at this like I said a long time ago so excusse me for being dumb.

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    For any grant proposal you need to explore all options or alternatives, whether new, used or upgraded. We would all like to have new equipment, but is it feasible or justifiable.

    Upgrading SCBA to the current standard is the most cost effective way to do so vs. new. Case in point; our Scott SCBA were 9 years old and 2 standards out of date. The SCBA were in excellent condition and well maintained. After reviewing cost figures for new and upgraded the only choice was to upgrade. To provide the best cost vs. benefit scenerio new was out upgrading was in.

    In the end we paid $4,233 for each new (4) SCBA (for riding positions with out SCBA) and $1,356 per upgrade (21) w/integrated PASS.

    25 new = $105,825
    new + upgrade = $45,408
    SAVINGS = $60,417

    The total funded project was just over $94,000, to also include TO and spare cylinders.

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    You should probably split out the 2 projects. This year concentrate on the PPE and SCBA since those items are high priority. Next year go for the exhaust system. Again at issue will be the amount you would be looking to have funded. You can figure on around $8,000/vehicle to have an exhaust system installed.

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    fire41108, I wouldn't call yourself dumb for not knowing. Especially since you're here making an effort to learn more about the process, thousands of folks writing the grants for their departments don't make any effort to improve their chances. That I consider a not so smart thing to do. I spend well over 1,000 hours a year learning more myself, especially with the number of departments depending on me to know what's going on.

    Anywho, the savings realized by performing the upgrade is something to highlight in the project as bugle mentioned.

    And drop the exhaust. Or the PPE. Or the SCBA. They are 3 separate projects, and as I mentioned some departments will not be competitive for more than 1. PPE is the #1 priority, SCBA is #2 as far as equipment goes. Exhaust removal has it's health benefits for manned stations, but depending on your call volume your stats may not agree with that being a major risk. If the PPE is that bad, go for it and only it so you give yourself the best chance at changing that situation. SCBAs being 8-9 y/o is not a priority like I said before, so just because they're out of standard doesn't mean they aren't safe. My department uses our old 20 year old steel bottles Scott 2.2s for live burn training. Way out of compliance, but they protect my lungs just as well as a new SCBA, so I wear it with no qualms. No such thing as a 'practice' fire.

    If you haven't done so already, I've got 3 articles over in the MemberZone to read about writing grants. It's a lot easier than searching the forums for the basics.

    - Brian

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    Thanks

    I went to a workshop the other day and she told me that PPE, SCBA and the vent system are the 3 big one to ask for.

    I think I amd going to write for gear, upgrade to 2002 standard and the vent system I think 800 runs a year with out a vent system and having the house manned is a big one.

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    They are the big three, but that doesn't mean that you'll be competitive for all 3 at the same time. A 'Laundry List' application can have only 2 items depending on the department. PPE and SCBA are more important than the exhaust system, at least in my mind they are. Exhaust systems don't keep me from getting burned. If your PPE is that bad, don't drop your score by asking for too much at once.

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    10-4 Then i'll look at droping SCBA and/or the system but may the SCBA's will be droped.


    Thank you for all you help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    They are the big three, but that doesn't mean that you'll be competitive for all 3 at the same time. A 'Laundry List' application can have only 2 items depending on the department. PPE and SCBA are more important than the exhaust system, at least in my mind they are. Exhaust systems don't keep me from getting burned. If your PPE is that bad, don't drop your score by asking for too much at once.
    Brian,

    I would say that an exhaust system is not creating a laundry list; as health and safety is key to this program; so goes the exhaust system.
    While SCBA falls under PPE; the Program Guidance allows you to apply for items under more then 1 area and if you ask for priority item under each section; you are not laundry listing.
    I know of a dept that has written request for host of top priorty items; scba, ppe, generator, sprinkler system, exhaust and something else and were awarded last year; and had similar wide range of top items year before and were awarded.
    The dept is paid on premise for small suburban area with a guy who lives/loves to write grants and sop's

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    Great so you are saying to write for all three? and can I get a copy of that grant narritive?

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    And they are the exception to the rule.

    And don't confuse the PPE category with PPE as in bunker gear. Bunker Gear and SCBA are under the heading of Personal Protective equipment because each piece only protects 1 person. Applying for bunker gear and SCBA are TWO projects with completely different purposes. Yes, they both are made to keep the firefighter safe, but you can stretch that to say that hose and nozzles help keep the firefighter safe. The whole grant program only funds stuff that is meant to increase the safety of firefighters. Bunker gear, a washer and/or dryer are 1 project because it only involves firefighter clothing. SCBA and a compressor are only 1 project because they only involve breathing air safety.

    The exhaust system is easy, it's under the Station Modification Category, so it should be more than painfully obvious that it is a completely different project. So asking for Bunker Gear, SCBA, and an exhaust system in 99% of the applications would be a laundry list. Can it end up being funded? Sure can, it has happened. But again, that is the RARITY. Most awards are given because the departments focused on one and ONLY one issue. That's why some departments are in the awards list for 3-4 years in a row. They would have been denied asking for two projects at once, so they ask for one per year.

    Go back to the other presentations from DHS themselves. One of the top mistakes people make is asking for too much at once, and they do not mean 50 items on an application. Many applicants are not competitive for more than 1 focus at a time. With 800 runs, I'd say that they have a decent shot at asking for PPE and upgrading SCBA because that's a decent amount of fire only calls for any classification of department. No exhaust system, no new SCBA. If they 1st respond EMS at the average of 80% of the calls, don't bother with the SCBA.

    But my last statement is this: it's your app, you can apply for what you want and I'll wish everyone on here luck with their applications. I wish everyone could get funded, God knows we all need what we're applying for. But after spending over 5,000 hours over the last 5 years studying grant programs and grant applications (not just AFG), trust me when I say that chances are greatly improved by asking for less. Because the lesson is this: if you apply for only one focus and get it, it doesn't mean that you could have gone for 2 or 3 and won. And if you are denied in asking for only 1 focus, you sure had no shot at asking for 2 either.

    - Brian

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    I have decided to just go for the Coat,pants,helmet,boots and the exhaust system.

    Thanks for everyones help.

    Kevin

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