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  1. #21
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    Essentially it is already. For example: your Mayor/city council (or whatever other similar jurisdiction for which you work) is "involved". For one they are part of the chain of command of the FD and the community, particularily for emergency mgmt purposes. The Mayor needs IS700/ICS100/ICS200 the majority of the council needs IS700/ICS100. If not they you the FD are not in compliance from the standpoint of any DHS grants including AFG. The City/gov't body is also not incompliance the NIMS which is a requirement for grant such as Community Development Block Grants, Hazard Mitigation Grants etc.

    Got the city council and that nasty ole Mayor on board with that NIMS. I've had my IS700/ICS100/ICS200. Now have to get the chief/FD/council complete.

    The "metric" is substantial progress. No one is ever going to get 100% and twice a year snuffy isn't relavant. Officers and actives and the elected leadership.


  2. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber Ladder8's Avatar
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    We've had problems...

    There has been resistance from some of our members to provide their SSN as the application says that it is voluntary and that it is used to track scores and such.

    However, we have received a form letter from the feds saying that it is required because it is used to check citizenship.

    Anyone else have any experience with this?
    Be safe y'all!
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  3. #23
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    Although it wasn't meant to be used as such, SSN is the only statistic available to uniquely identify a person.

    If the app says voluntary, and the Feds say required, then they need to either update the paperwork or back off since there is no requirement to be a citizen to be involved in the fire service. An SSN is required to be paid, but not citizenship.

  4. #24
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    I have had several people who did not want to give their SSN. You will not be able to take the test online if you do not provide a SSN or ID.
    ------------------------------------
    From the NIMS page:
    If students have reservations about the use of their SSN, but still want to participate in our program, we can assign a tracking number to their account after they fax us proof of U.S. citizenship, which can be a passport, voter's registration card or birth certificate. The student must then remember and use this unique nine-digit number for all future Independent Study Program transactions, and most higher-learning institutions will not recognize the student's course work for college credit, because the student's SSN is not associated with the course work.

    Any exam submission without a SSN or number provided is not processed and automatically deleted. If you wish to request a student ID number, please fax your request, with proof of citizenship to: (301) 447-1201, or mail your request to: EMI-Independent Study Program, 16825 South Seton Ave., Emmitsburg, MD 21727-8998

    Please provide an email address, your mailing address and telephone number so we may provide your student ID number as quickly as possible. You must wait to receive your student ID number before you submit your exam. You will then be able to use this nine-digit number in lieu of your SSN. Please be aware that this action can take several weeks. You may also want to look into the Opscan forms that are available from the IS office, but again a SS# is required on those in order to make sure we have the correct information for our records.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    As an alternative, DHS will accept a copy of the persons birth certificate or voter registration card. Send it in with the paper answer sheet (bubble sheet).
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 02-20-2006 at 09:47 AM.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
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    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  5. #25
    Forum Member THEFIRENUT's Avatar
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    Default NIMS Compliance

    I think that I understand most of this stuff. I do have a question however. We are a small vol. FD that only report to our "Steering Committee". Is this our JHA??? One more....do the explorers/junior ff have to be nims complianct???
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=KenNFD1219]I have had several people who did not want to give their SSN. You will not be able to take the test online if you do not provide a SSN or ID.
    QUOTE]

    I did not input my SSN on IS-700 exam and received a "passed it" email back from DHS.

    Citizen to take IS and ICS. And violating the law by USING SSN. What a bunch of typical DHS BS.

  7. #27
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    I would think that the explorers should be NIMS compliant. You should be using NIMS\ICS for drills, training, or exercises. If they participate, they should know what ICS and NIMS means. Your SOP's also need to reflect the concepts of NIMS.

    Most likely, the steering committee is the one responsible to see that you (and they) are NIMS compliant. Has your state office of emergency management or homeland security given you any guidance in NIMS compliance?
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  8. #28
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    rolandthunder,

    Check with your county emergency manager. The SD Emergency Management web site lists upcoming courses under the training link.

    http://www.oem.sd.gov/

    I am taking the I-300 this week in Spearfish.

    Stay Safe
    IACOJ

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa
    I did not input my SSN on IS-700 exam and received a "passed it" email back from DHS.
    Very interesting, I was under the impression that the web site would not process the test without the SSN. Have you received the certificate?

    Our state fire academy finally dropped the SSN requirement. We now use the first three letters of the last name and the last four numbers in the SSN. Smith 123-45-6789 would be id'ed as SMI6789

    Unfortunatley, the SSN has become a defacto national identifiction number.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  10. #30
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    Page 5 of this document on the NIMS site has a nice and simple table for who has to do what. Basically restating what Ken had but slightly more readable and 1 page since us FFs have short attention spans.

    http://www.fema.gov/pdf/nims/06_training.pdf

  11. #31
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    Deleted-duplicate posting.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 02-20-2006 at 03:11 PM.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  12. #32
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    One of my projects at work is bringing the town into NIMS compliance. The FD and the volunteer groups (fire police and CERT) were easy, just some minor terminology and SOP adjustments. As far as police, EMS, and public works-well, lets say I might as well be talking to a wall. I did have all 17 department heads for the town attend an IS-700 class last month, and they all passed the exam.

    The question I have is do all town response agencies have to be NIMS compliant for federal funds? For example, the FD is compliant but because the PD is not, do we lose out of the AFG this year? I think a lot of people are going to be suprised this year when grants are denied because they do not meet NIMS requirements.

    The IS-700 and ICS classes are only part of NIMS compliance. If this is all you do, you will not be NIMS compliant.

    The requiremtents for NIMS by September 30, 2006 include your town or governing body adopting NIMS as an ordinance or resolution; using ICS for all events, both planned and unplanned; institutionalizing the use of ICS terms, definitions, concepts, and principals; requirements for multi-disipline and mulit-jurisdictional exercises; NIMS resource typing; modifying SOP's to reflect NIMS concepts; having a joint information system in place; and the ability to develop a multi-agency coordination system (MAC).
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 02-20-2006 at 03:17 PM.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  13. #33
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    The question I have is do all town response agencies have to be NIMS compliant for federal funds? For example, the FD is compliant but because the PD is not, do we lose out of the AFG this year? I think a lot of people are going to be suprised this year when grants are denied because they do not meet NIMS requirements.
    The last "clarification" I got was that it depended on where the funds were going. HUD, HS, etc all go to munipalities, so they would need to be compliant. AFG goes to Emergency Services, and since we all know how well we do getting the politicians to do the right thing, so as long as the entity receiving the money is as compliant as they can be then they're fine.

    I also saw a neat definition on the NIMS site.

    Tribal and local governments encouraged to start implementing the NIMS. At the end of FY 2005, States and Territories submit a self-certification form attesting that the state, taken as a whole , has met the minimum FY 2005 requirements.
    And the magic wording means:

    "Taken as a whole" recognizes that not every community or individual responder will have completed all of the requirements. The "taken as a whole" standard means that most have and that good faith efforts are underway to
    achieve full compliance.
    Nothing like something as ambigious as "good faith effort" to clear things up.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenNFD1219
    One of my projects at work is bringing the town into NIMS compliance. The FD and the volunteer groups (fire police and CERT) were easy, just some minor terminology and SOP adjustments. As far as police, EMS, and public works-well, lets say I might as well be talking to a wall. I did have all 17 department heads for the town attend an IS-700 class last month, and they all passed the exam.

    The question I have is do all town response agencies have to be NIMS compliant for federal funds? For example, the FD is compliant but because the PD is not, do we lose out of the AFG this year? I think a lot of people are going to be suprised this year when grants are denied because they do not meet NIMS requirements.

    The IS-700 and ICS classes are only part of NIMS compliance. If this is all you do, you will not be NIMS compliant.

    The requiremtents for NIMS by September 30, 2006 include your town or governing body adopting NIMS as an ordinance or resolution; using ICS for all events, both planned and unplanned; institutionalizing the use of ICS terms, definitions, concepts, and principals; requirements for multi-disipline and mulit-jurisdictional exercises; NIMS resource typing; modifying SOP's to reflect NIMS concepts; having a joint information system in place; and the ability to develop a multi-agency coordination system (MAC).
    Although it should not "directly" affect you in AFG, it will have an overall affect on your town and their ability to access their funding streams and or participate in any State Homeland Security Grant Programs. For instance a regional communications upgrade using Homeland Security money or, if my predications hold true, the added requirement that you will need to be NIMS complaint to participate in CEDAP next year.

    If I were you I would have a VERY SERIOUS conversation with the City Manager or Council about the ramifications of "ignoring" this mandatory requirement, as it eventually will affect all of you. If the PD is not eligible to get grant money they are still going to be asking the city council to fund their projects and the arguement could be made that they will take money away from your budget, to fund things that they cannnot get on the grants due to their ineligibility.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenNFD1219
    I would think that the explorers should be NIMS compliant. You should be using NIMS\ICS for drills, training, or exercises. If they participate, they should know what ICS and NIMS means. Your SOP's also need to reflect the concepts of NIMS.

    Most likely, the steering committee is the one responsible to see that you (and they) are NIMS compliant. Has your state office of emergency management or homeland security given you any guidance in NIMS compliance?
    Ken, thank you for your response. And thank you Brian for that link to "training". I beleive that I have gained a little more insight into this whole mess. It is hard to work toward "compliance" when the roadmap is in Chinese. Thanks again for the translations. Take care and stay safe!!
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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  16. #36
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    firenut I have quite a bt of NIMS information maintained here that is constantly updated as well: http://www.chiefsupply.com/grants/re_nims.html
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

  17. #37
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    Had a class tonight. 30 showed up out of about 40. Some are taking it on line. So we are headed toward the majority. Nobody enjoyed it, but all took it. Much is over their heads and alot is stuff they use every day and don't even realize that is ICS. Every day that you go to a job you are part of a chain of command Whether you realize it or not.

  18. #38
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    Can someone clear up a few things for me? I have read through the NIMS stuff more then a few times and Im a little confused.

    First: If I read it right it says that we have to be at the IS700 to be 2005 compliant right? And if yes what % of the department has to be at that level?

    Second: For this year we have to add IS100 and IS200?

    Third: Does anyone in a small department need to be trained above that level?

    As far as I know I am the only one in any department in this town that is compliant. So if you can get that cleared up for me I can get everyone else caught up.

  19. #39
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    100% at IS700 by Oct 2005 was the goal, or "reasonable effort being made". Considering that most of the materials are online and 50% of the country doesn't have internet access, it kinda makes it hard to complete. Same reason so many don't apply, which is the conversation I had with a few DHS folks.

    And yes, 100 and 200 will have to be completed by Oct 1st of this year to be 2006 compliant. But since that's after the application period, it's a moot point for this application period as far as applying goes. Awards may be another story. Maybe one day the PG will be published and it will have some answers. Considering the app period opens on Monday, the Guidance documents might help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rolandthunder
    Third: Does anyone in a small department need to be trained above that level?
    IS 800 by the chief officer/command level i think. Genus has escaped me this evening.
    earl

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