NIMS compliance for volunteer dept.

[neiowa]

Can someone clear up a few things for me? I have read through the NIMS stuff more then a few times and Im a little confused.

First: If I read it right it says that we have to be at the IS700 to be 2005 compliant right? And if yes what % of the department has to be at that level?

Second: For this year we have to add IS100 and IS200?

Third: Does anyone in a small department need to be trained above that level?

As far as I know I am the only one in any department in this town that is compliant. So if you can get that cleared up for me I can get everyone else caught up.

Nitpick ICS100 & ICS200

[ksmith31]

When you talk of 100% compliance, how deep into the roster does that go? We have interior, exterior and support members. Our support members do not actually do firefighting activities. Most times the only reason they would be at the scene of an incident would be to serve hot chocolate or coffee. They more or less help out with fire prevention presentations, open houses, doing gopher stuff, paperwork, recordkeeping, etc. Do we have to have them go through all of this training because they show on the roster as a "member?" I would think that only our interior/exterior and EMS people would need to complete these courses. If I am wrong, please let me know since our roster is well over 120+ when you include the support members and we will have a lot of work ahead of us. And, if anyone can give me an idea of how to get the point across to my chief about how urgent and important this is, I would appreciate it.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

They'll fall under the Logistics sector. Everyone including CERT members need NIMS, but they only need 700 if my brain is working on this Friday afternoon. Maybe 100.

[neiowa]

If they are on a roster and the manure hits the rotary air distributor, you have "THE BIG ONE", you'll be calling on all of them to help/do something. Right?

When that happens someone is going to be telling them what to do. May or might not be someone they know/from your dept. They need IS700.

[WarrenJ]

The NIMS documentation in my opinion lumps ALL firefighters together, career, paid on call and volunteers in one group and calls them "firefighters".

Below is the verbiage from the 2006 NIMS compliance document.
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/nims/06_training.pdf

Federal/State/Local/Tribal/Private Sector & Non-governmental personnel to include:
Entry level first responders & disaster workers
· Emergency Medical Service personnel
· Firefighters
· Hospital staff
· Law Enforcement personnel
· Public Health personnel
· Public Works/Utility personnel
· Skilled Support Personnel
· Other emergency management response, support, volunteer personnel at all levels

If you look at the FAQ in NIMS web site, question number 399 Last Updated 02/06/2006 12:26 PM, and the response you will see what the NIC says about volunteers.

If you are considering yourself an “entry level person” then you should read the following.

FAQ Answer ID 395 Last Updated 02/03/2006 12:34 PM
NIMS Compliance and Volunteer Fire Departments

Required Training: Entry Level
· FEMA IS-700: NIMS, An Introduction
· ICS-100: Introduction to ICS or equivalent

Personnel –
Federal/State/Local/Tribal/Private Sector & Non-governmental personnel to include entry-level first responders and disaster workers –
· Emergency Medical Service personnel,
· Firefighters,
· Hospital staff
· Law Enforcement personnel,
· Public Health personnel,
· Public Works/Utility personnel,
· Skilled Support Personnel,
· Other emergency management response, support, volunteer personnel at all levels

[cptanner]

Does anybody know where I can find some sort of grant templete. I'm in a officer development course and I have write a paper each week and this weeks is writing a grant proposal. Never written one and need to have some ideas.

[rescueman5]

99 out of a 100 fire departments that I know aren't compliant then.

How am I supposed to track down and make guys who don't come around that often, have busy schedules, or even no internet access to complete NIMS? Good luck getting the "older" active members to take it. We recently aquired the internet at the station, but it'll be next to impossible to get everyone to sit down and take the on line class. My department isn't the busy, hard core staffed 24 hours type station. And what about new members, and juniors? "hey, before you take essentials class (PA), or FFI, we need you to take NIMS IS-1,000,000."

Christ, we have trouble getting guys to go to drill sometimes. Anyone else understand or know what I'm getting at?

At my volunteer department we also had the problem of people not having the time or effort to take the class. We solved it by setting a cut of date. If you did not have a certificate or an email in hand by April 1 you were out of sevvice untill you did.

[firedan1]

our local EMA director told our department we had to take the 700,800,100 and 200 by oct 1,2006 and next year we will have to take the 300 and 400 and with me being the training officer of our department i just had to set my foot down with the members and gave them deadlines they was to be finished and if they did not they was no longer a member of the department it was that simple period but we have a waiting line to get in our department we only have 40 members max at any given time and that is a max number we will accept.we are a very hard core department to be a member example in 1 year you will be FF1 in 2 years you will be a state EMT in 3 years you will be FF2 and that my friend is in stone no excuse or your not a member and we are 100% volunteer and that my friend is the reason we have taken 1st place the last 10 years in the local FF skills event no department has been able to touch us yet even the local paid departments it just takes work and dedication and not firetruck chasers.

[Bones42]

. , . ,

[sdff1520]

. , . ,

. .
lol

[CJPTRUCKIE]

As a county we have a IMS that Im guessing meets these standards set by NIMS. Im guessing as long as we as a dept follow the county IMS we are covering the NIMS, or does this AFG/NIMS thing mean each member of the dept should have/needs to have this.

Im I correct in saying that we do not need to meet NIMS (as a hole dept) in order to apply for an AFG in 2006?

Im I also correct that we (as a hole dept) need to meet the NIMS in order to apply next year (2007)?

But as a hole dept every responding member needs to have these classes and have copies in there file buy September 2006?

Thanks

[MarionMedic]

Just took IS700 this week.
I asked the same question about how to get 100% compliance.
After all, we have guys who never even show up for a meeting. How do they expect Volunteer Departments to mandate that the guys do something extra when the "regular" stuff doesn't get done????


The answer is brutal.....

They do it or get "booted" or put on inactive status.
-OR-
You give up recieving Federal Grants.

NO ROOM FOR PLAY.

That said, I see a lot of good info in this class. Use it, adapt it, or forget it. Doesn't matter as long as you attend.

If the idea of "turning over control" to the Feds doesn't appeal to ya, remember you can opt out later if you wish.

[sdff1520]

Just took IS700 this week.
I asked the same question about how to get 100% compliance.
After all, we have guys who never even show up for a meeting. How do they expect Volunteer Departments to mandate that the guys do something extra when the "regular" stuff doesn't get done????

The only enforcement arm they have at this time is funding. If a department chooses to apply for federal preparedness funding the they must also choose to comply with NIMS. If a department doesn't whish to enforce NIMS training requirements or mandate that members complete the training then they have also chosen to be ineligible for funding assistance. Double edged sword ... in some cases it may help a department remove some of that dead wood ... those members that arn't active and don't participate in training, meetings, drills, work details, etc.... should probably be removed from the department anyway. On the other hand there may be members who are active and a valuable asset to the department and strapping them with even more "REQUIREMENTS" may cause them to quit ... thats a bad thing.

[neiowa]

our local EMA director told our department we had to take the 700,800,100 and 200 by oct 1,2006 and next year we will have to take the 300 and 400 and with me being the training officer of our department i just had to set my foot down with the members and gave them deadlines they was to be finished and if they did not they was no longer a member of the department it was that simple period but we have a waiting line to get in our department we only have 40 members max at any given time and that is a max number we will accept.we are a very hard core department to be a member example in 1 year you will be FF1 in 2 years you will be a state EMT in 3 years you will be FF2 and that my friend is in stone no excuse or your not a member and we are 100% volunteer and that my friend is the reason we have taken 1st place the last 10 years in the local FF skills event no department has been able to touch us yet even the local paid departments it just takes work and dedication and not firetruck chasers.

He's blowing smoke up your skirt. Considerable lattitude for states to determine what compliance means. In Iowa Cities are to self certify they are NIMS compliant (within state guidelines). Most are using majority of FF and supermajority or ALL of officers/key players.

Anyone that seriously suggest 100% of anything is a fool. You couldn't get 100% of any group to take free $100 bills (or to show up for the handout)

[KenNFD1219]

our local EMA director told our department we had to take the 700,800,100 and 200 by oct 1,2006 and next year we will have to take the 300 and 400

That does not agree with the training requirements from the NIMS Intergration Center ICS requirements

ICS 300 and 400 are for command staff.

IS-800 is primarily for the local emergency manager.

You can find NIMS training requirements here.

[ktb9780]

And Ken ,in small town USA, that Emergency Manager is usually the Fire Chief or Police Chief. I wore all three hats at once when the %&$# hit the fan from a hurricane or critical incident. Not dissagreeing withoyu about 300-400, just wnat you to know that sometimes we ARE the designated EM for our small towns, as nobody else has the common sense or experience to turn mayhem into an organized effort.

[ktb9780]

That does not agree with the training requirements from the NIMS Intergration Center ICS requirements

ICS 300 and 400 are for command staff.

IS-800 is primarily for the local emergency manager.

You can find NIMS training requirements here.

You know the old saying about what rolls downhill, sometimes better to know what is fixing to roll at you! The NRP is the bible by which everything else functions. Better to start at the base and build upon that sometimes.

[KenNFD1219]

Kurt:

I know what you mean. I am the Deputy Fire Chief (paid) and the Deputy Emergency Manager (volunteer) in my town. My daytime on duty coverage, with police, fire, and EMS, is about 25 people. Nights and weekends are about 18.

My point is that there is a difference between what is required for NIMS and what is available. There is a lot of mis-information going around as to what is required for NIMS compliance. The NIMS Integration Center has all the requirements posted. IMHO, there is little reason for a probationary fire fighter to receive National Response Plan training. We have put all our fire, police, and ems people through IS-700 and ICS-100, using the self-study method. Supervisors have ICS-200. Emergency Manager and I have IS-800.

[firedan1]

Our EMA Dir.has told us we will have the 700,800 100,200,300,and 400 i think its crazy to and do you want to here something even more far fetched by December 2007 every member has to be a Haz Mat tech in our county if we wish to continue to get yearly funding from our county.I currently talked with the state on this and the way our state has it set up the local EMA Dir. can tell us what training or what cert.level you will have because we are getting county goverment money.Ihave also talked with other county EMA Dir.in our surrounding areas and they was going to follow what our county EMA Dir was doing .But in all reality if you go and look it up the county we live in is one of the highest trained and most safe place in our state to live in

[ktb9780]

Ken you are right, and I did not mean to imply that ALL should take IS-800, I only meant command staff.


Now if Ray Nagin and Kathryn Blanco had taken the course maybe they might have understood how to initiate the Federal response and what that response was going to be and how long it would take.

Too bad they never learned the lesson that we here in Florida have been living under now since Andrew! I hear everyone complaining about "Oh my God" look what happened in New Orleans. I can tell you from " first-hand experience". It was not as bad as Andrew was in terms of recovery and Fed response.