1. #1
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    Default AFG for a rescue truck

    I know that getting a truck is pretty tough. But has anyone gotten one and what advice could you give the rest of us.

    Our fire Dept has old tankers from the 50s and 60s that need to go.

    Our rescue unit has a 1987 GMC 4 door pickup with an enclosed utility box that we bought used out of rebelstoke canada. The truck is pretty beat up and leaks like fluids like an old man with a bladder problem. Not to mention the fact that its so weighed down with equipment that the back end sags down almost 6 inches. This truck isnt overloaded infact we have room for more in it. Sher just cant take the load anymore.

    So any advice on trucks would be great.

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    We'll need a little more info. What is your classification: rural, suburban or urban? Describe your tankers: tank size, pumps etc.

    I'm guessing you are leaning towards a rescue based on the info you supplied. Since you are from SD, I'm assuming your classification is rural. If this is true, you need to look at replacing a tanker. A rescue is a priority 2 for rural and suburban. What does this mean; you will not get funded. Priority 1 vehicles will be funded and since there are a lot of requests for P1 vehicles P2 vehicles will not funded any time soon.

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    I have to agree with the previous post. You will not get funded for a tanker request alone due to DHS priorities. You may want to consider a combination pumper/rescue unit if your first line pumpers are old enough. That way you can justify the unit as a pumper but have something that doubles as a rescue unit.

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    Actually, they handed out a bunch of tankers last year with just 250-500gpm PTO pumps. It's just that most people asked for something that has a good sized pump on it to act as a pumper-tanker. Which is the better way to go IMHO. More benefit for the minimal extra cost

    It's either a Rescue, Pumper, or Tanker for the AFG when it comes to apparatus. If it has at least a 1000gpm pump, it's a pumper unless it's got over a 1250 gallon tank then it's a tanker regardless of pump size. Less than 1000gpm it's something else, depending on how you spec it.

    If you have tankers from the 50s and 60s and want to apply for new ones, it can have a huge tank and pump, but DHS will call it a tanker. It doesn't matter what you call it when it gets home. So if you need both, make sure you spec it to have a big enough pump to do the job and the big tank. Then that's the reasoning for the truck costing more than the average tanker and you won't get caught up in an award reduction.

    If you can squeeze the rescue stuff on it also, then great, but watch your pricing. It's a 1 in 92 shot to get a truck over $300K, 1 in 10 to get any vehicle. The more you load it up, the less likely it will be awarded. Especially in rural classifications. Same reason a rural quint app is a wasted application.

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    The thing is that our Rescue unit is a seperate service. Seperate chief and seperate budget. Its sole responsability is rescue. We only have one truck for the entire service and it houses all of the rescue equipment. The rescue service has no fire fighting responsabilities. We are not looking for a heavy rescue truck just a good sized 4x4 with a rescue box that we can get off road with. As far as our classification we are 20 miles from the largest city in the state so we are concidered urban.
    Our rescue budget is $15,000.00 A year. That has to cover all training, equipment, utilities, and any other expenses. We are not allowed to save any of that money if we dont use it we lose it. So we have no way to save for a truck. The service is operated by a joint group of fire fighters and EMTs. Anyone from either group that wants to work on rescue can.

    As far as the tankers Im unsure of the sizes off the top of my head but they are just big tanks on old trucks that dump into a drop tank for the pumpers to draft out of.

    Im on the rescue unit not the fire dept. so I am unsure to a lot of the specs on the tankers. I am just trying to help them out with getting some info since I have the time. My real concern is getting a good rescue.

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    It's only separate if it is organized as its own 503c corporation. Otherwise it isn't separate, it's part of the FD. So if the Rescue Unit is a separate 503c, you can apply, but you will be under the EMS category and only Ambulances are Priority 1 vehicles because the purpose of EMS is patient transport. So you won't get a rescue truck their either.

    But if it is part of the FD's 503c, then either the Rescue Unit or the FD can put in one application. Either way, Rescue is still a low priority and won't be funded. And as far as the program is concerned, those tankers are top priority in the FD's situation.

    Your classification is determined by population density per square mile, not by what you are near. Under 500/sq mi is rural, over 2500 is urban. In between is suburban or course.

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    That makes urban. There are way to many damn people in this county. Half our county is one town. It sucks

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    So in your first response area you have more than 2500 people per square mile? And you're not paid on $15,000 a year budget? My department is still Suburban and we're running 900+ calls with the 2 rescue trucks per year. Guess people don't drive as badly up there as they do down here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rolandthunder
    That makes urban. There are way to many damn people in this county. Half our county is one town. It sucks
    You sure about that?

    Google says pop of Canton SD is 3110

    Census Geography QuickFacts
    Lincoln County, SD
    Land area, 2000 (square miles) 578
    Population, 2000 24,131
    Persons per square mile, 2000 41.7

    So what weight/load (in lb) do you need to haul? What space for equipment (ft3)? There are other viable vehicle options if all you need is equipment transport space.

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    I had always thought that we were rural but last year we were informed by the state that do to the growth of Sioux Falls. Around a hundred and twenty thousand people now. That we would be considered urban. It doesnt make any sense to me but thats what we were told. As far as the truck its basicaly just a tool hauler. All we want/need is a 4x4, four door, dually, pickup with a closed in utility box like we have. Nothing fancy just newer and more reliable. It doesnt run medical calls. So its not used much. Its just for scenes where some form of rescue is needed. Mostly accidents. It only runs about 30 real calls a year. What we have works we are just out growing it. We have used our budget for new tools every year. This truck just was never setup to be used in this way. It was meant to be used by a phone or power company.

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    Even though the state has informed you that you are urban, it does not mean that you will be urban for the AFG. Your classification is determined by the following for the AFG.

    In the PG, page 9 states:

    Application

    As in previous years, you will be required to answer a series of questions
    designed to provide the FIRE Grants Program Office with general information about your organization and your community.The answers you provide to these questions may be used in the evaluation of your application. We will also use some of the information to determine whether your organization serves an urban, suburban, or rural community. We believe that characteristics such as population, water supply, land use, number of stations, number of inhabitable structures over four stories tall in your jurisdiction, and call volume are indicators of the type of community you serve. We will use these characteristics to determine what type of community you serve. However, we will also allow you to designate the type of community that you serve.The designation will be displayed on the application once you have completed the Department Characteristics sections of the application.
    When we worked on our first grant, we figured the town would be classified suburban, due to our proximity to the state capital. Not the case, we were classified rural for the AFG.
    Last edited by onebugle; 02-12-2006 at 07:45 AM.

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