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  1. #26
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    Used to be we could not lcose highways or interstate, but a law called Shib's law here in illinois passed both the house and the senate, I have not seen heard for sue if the GOV. has signed it in to law yet but i am sure it will be.

    this was dedicated to a Sesser Illinois fire fighter killed on I-57. just do a google search on Shib's law for more info on it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter2160 View Post
    Used to be we could not lcose highways or interstate, but a law called Shib's law here in illinois passed both the house and the senate, I have not seen heard for sue if the GOV. has signed it in to law yet but i am sure it will be.

    this was dedicated to a Sesser Illinois fire fighter killed on I-57. just do a google search on Shib's law for more info on it
    They don't even have to go that far ... here's the link to Laura's thread.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...t=Shib%27s+Law
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    Here in Alberta any highway outside the municipal boundry is the RCMP's jurisdiction. The have the right to close the road, what they really need to do is notifiy the Provincial Minister of Transportation and ask for permission. Not that the Minister is ever going to say no, you still need permission. The police still go ahead and shut the road down before they get permission, if it's a safety issue. The police are usually there and we just ask them to close the road and they never have a problem doing this for us. But if it's a safety issue, I'd shut the road down before the police arrived on scene.



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    I have not been issued a shiny whistle, pretty white or lime green gloves, or a flashlight with the "light saber" orange covers on them so directing traffic is not my bag baby. What I have been issued is an apparatus with a lot of lights. We simply block what needs to be blocked and PD is usually not far behind (if they are not there already) and they help with traffic flow. It is amazing how quickly law enforcement comes running when you tell dispatch you have completely blocked the interstate.

    Cop teasing aside, if both agencies recognize that each has a job to do it's pretty easy to come to a common ground. It is very common for us to block whatever we need to keep the area safe and PD makes what we've left work. When things stabilize they'll ask us to move a rig or two to help traffic move a little better and we do our best to help out.

    The vast majority of problems I've either seen or heard about involve one of the two "sides" deciding they're the supreme commander and ruler of all they survey and throw their weight around just so they can brag to their buddies over coffee at shift change.
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    In Kansas - Fire dept is only authorized by KS law to shut down roads and highways for FIRE's only. A bill was introduced this year in response to a few firefighters ending up with chrome bracelets in other states - changing the wording from "fire" to "emergency". Bill stalled in committee - working to build support for it to move out of committee next year.

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    Out here in Harris County, we do shut down roadways for MVA's. We have even gone so far as to shut down Interstate 10 when needed. We have an excellent working relationship with HCSO, DPS, and when needed, HPD. Our Chief has actually yelled at people attempting to drive through a scene. Also, when people get impatiant(sp?) all we have to do is notify the LEO on scene. They get taken care of REALLY quickly. I'd say though, 99% of it has to do with having a good relationship with the LEO's in your area, and avoiding any and all ****ing matches. Everyone loses in those situations.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokker416 View Post
    I have not been issued a shiny whistle, pretty white or lime green gloves, or a flashlight with the "light saber" orange covers on them so directing traffic is not my bag baby. What I have been issued is an apparatus with a lot of lights. We simply block what needs to be blocked and PD is usually not far behind (if they are not there already) and they help with traffic flow. It is amazing how quickly law enforcement comes running when you tell dispatch you have completely blocked the interstate.
    .
    Ah yes, the 20 ton traffic cone manned by the yellow canaries.

    Not fire bashing, being one myself. We have no arguments with FD closing an additional lane as necessary. Most of the time we already shut those lanes, and use the apparatus as the blocker. As far as my PD guys are concerned, the scene is Fire and EMS property until the patient care is done, the patient transported, and the vehicle made safe. Don't really care what the public thinks about it.

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    Talking

    We have an extremely good relationship with the city PD. They show up on pretty much any call that is outside, and any call that is in the lower end neighborhoods. At MVAs they will sometimes begin traffic control on their own even if we don't ask for it, even if we aren't blocking lanes. It helps slow down the drivers and keep us safer. Also, most times when we have an aid call, even if we don't need PD atleast one officer will be nearby, driving around the streets very close to us. In return for all they do for us, we leave the TV plugged in at the unmanned station along with 2 recliners for when they have a slow night . oh, and we have plenty of ice cream to share.

  9. #34
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    Post Well....................

    Quote Originally Posted by cherylew1 View Post
    I just have 2 questions.
    1) Does a Police Chief have the authority to tell the Fire Chief that calls are to go to the police dept and respond before the fire dept.?
    2) Does the Fire dept. have the authority to close a road down and/or detour traffic from a scene?
    My family has been in the fire service for over 30 years and I have never heard of a police chief doing this before, so I am just wondering what you all think. FYI he is in the state of Maine.

    I'm in Maryland. The Answers to your Questions, as they apply here are:

    1. - No.

    2. - Yes.

    Police Chiefs here have nothing to do with Dispatch operations. And Fire Chiefs don't either. Emergency Calls go to the 911 Answering/Emergency Dispatch Center in each County. The Dispatch Center handles the call, sending Police to Crimes and Fire/Rescue to Fires and EMS Calls. Police units only go to Fires at the request of the Fire Department.

    Traffic is usually controlled by placing a couple of Big Red Trucks across the road, which caiuses traffic to stop. We usually don't bother with directing traffic, most people can find their way home. The Cops normally don't do traffic either, they're too busy with important stuff.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cherylew1 View Post
    I just have 2 questions.
    1) Does a Police Chief have the authority to tell the Fire Chief that calls are to go to the police dept and respond before the fire dept.?
    2) Does the Fire dept. have the authority to close a road down and/or detour traffic from a scene?
    My family has been in the fire service for over 30 years and I have never heard of a police chief doing this before, so I am just wondering what you all think. FYI he is in the state of Maine.
    Although this is a few years old: I'm in Maine and the answer is the same as HWOODS:

    1) No.
    2) Yes

  11. #36
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    Default State of Georgia Law

    Georgia state law title 25 governs the fire department. Under title 25 there is a section concerning the "Emergency Powers of the Fire Department".
    In an emergency the fire department becomes the most powerful agency in the state. Now getting law enforcement to do what you need at a fire scene varies. Some officers will help you do anything and others won't.

    Here are some examples of the emergency powers:

    1. Close any road.
    (We battle with state DOT and state police sometimes over this one. They want us to call and asked there permission to close the interstate. I never take time to call the state capitol first. State law is on our side. We always come out on top when the dust clears.)

    2. Demolish buildings or property, with explosives if needed.
    (We use this most often to establish fire lines on private property.)

    3. Condemn property/buildings
    (Most commonly used after a structure fire when the building is unsafe to occupy)

    4. Order mandatory evacuations
    (Used in hazmat incident, exposure properties during structure/wildland fires)

    5. Enter any property
    (Every fire department has this authority)

    6. Seize property
    (Most commonly used when we are drafting from private ponds)

    When fire is cried and danger is neigh,
    "God and the firemen" is the people's cry;
    But when 'tis out and all things righted,
    God is forgotten and the firemen slighted.
    ~Author unknown, from The Fireman's Journal, 18 Oct 1879

  12. #37

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    well gang, precedent is set, and it benefits the fire guys.

    In LA a policeman arrested a fire captain for shutting down an additional lane of traffic on an MVA scene. It was caught on the cruiser dash-cam and made headlines. the cop lost the court case and had to pay the fire capt $18,000. he also probably lost his job. what a bonehead thing to do, i guess the cop wanted to play fire captain that day. this was a multi lane interstate, BTW, not a two-laner.

    I tell my guys; "if in doubt, shut it down".

    the LEO's can watch passing cars and swivel their heads all day, but FFs work at the scene without being able to look over their shoulder. So screw 'em, screw the rest of the world, shut it down. make everybody late, make the cops do extra paperwork and call in overtime people to man road blocks. F**k-em, let them wait in their cars and stew.

    p*ss off the cops that enjoy dodging unguided missles and yelling at drivers that rubberneck.

    BTW if the lane is closed, there's no rubbernecking.

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    Nothing stops traffic like a 48' aerial sitting across the highway! Seriously, the township pd in our area doesn't want to do traffic so we have free reign to do what we want. Our fire police are very good at keeping people notified downward from the accident, plus the placement of the rigs across multiple lanes does well. Our main thoroughfare (SR20) is a 4 lane state highway with center turn, so we're working on a big road a lot of the time.
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    This might be what your looking for.

    http://www.officer.com/web/online/On-the-Street/Police-VS-Fire/21$43442

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    roaddogak-

    AMEN ! brother!!

    nobody's moving that "traffic cone"

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    Question Alabama

    any of yall in Alabama
    would like to know what the law said
    can't find it
    we got a new sheriff and he want to be in "THE MAN" over it all
    any info would be great

  18. #43
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    check the NIMS ICS. the highest ranking fire officer has control over the scene of the call.
    Firefighters need not fear fire, but give it all their respect.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    check the NIMS ICS. the highest ranking fire officer has control over the scene of the call.
    That isn't necessarily accurate. The highest ranking Fire Officer would not always be in command.

    The sheriff would not be in charge of my fire... I don't care if he does have a badge and gun. But I would not be in charge of his escaped prisoner search.

    The scene command is mostly based upon the type of event. If the event involves many agencies, then under NIMS... we establish Unified Command, and the lead agency is determined by the type of operation.

    If it is a fire... it is Fire

    If it is rescue... it is Fire

    If it is Hazmat... it is Fire or Hazmat Team

    If it is a Bank Robbery... it is LE, and we won't be there.

    If it is a Cardiac Call... then it is Fire, then EMS (many times Fire is EMS).

    If it is a plane crash... then the Fire Department extinguishes the fire, rescues survivors, and secures the ground while LE sets up perimeter, and EMS handles patients. Once the Fire Dept completes its assignments, then LE and the NTSB take over.


    blaze1084: You need to check your States Codes or Statues for language concerning the duties and powers of Fire Departments. Most States give the Fire Chief discretion on closing roads, when to deploy, and specific powers when performing duties.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

  20. #45
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    thanks man, thats what i was meaning just could not find the way to say it.
    Firefighters need not fear fire, but give it all their respect.

  21. #46
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    NIMS ICS really has nothing to do with a MVA, and who is in charge of the operations. It may be the LEO who is in charge depending on what has happened!!!

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    NIMS ICS really has nothing to do with a MVA, and who is in charge of the operations. It may be the LEO who is in charge depending on what has happened!!!
    oh, ok. the 3 departments i'm an explorer at go by that on any call thats not a medical call.
    Firefighters need not fear fire, but give it all their respect.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    NIMS ICS really has nothing to do with a MVA, and who is in charge of the operations. It may be the LEO who is in charge depending on what has happened!!!
    If you have taken the correct dose from the NIMS kool-aide, then NIMS ICS has everything to do with who and how IC runs at a MVA.

    -NIMS ICS should be established at every call, from a stubbed toe to a "towering inferno". The first arriving establishes IC, if the call remains small he also assumes the role of Operations. NIMS ICS can be expanded to fit the needs of the call... blah, blah, blah.

    -NIMS, since it covers all responders from local PD and FD to the National Guard, also states who is in charge of the scene; based on the type of call and experience levels of responders... blah, blah.

    Of course this is all academic, and relies heavily on drinking from the NIMS Kool-Aide. But don't fill the young Padawans head with NIMS doesn't matter. He could still grow up an run FEMA (if he has such qualifications as Commissioner of the Arabian Horses Association, yes dig on Michael Brown)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    If you have taken the correct dose from the NIMS kool-aide, then NIMS ICS has everything to do with who and how IC runs at a MVA.

    -NIMS ICS should be established at every call, from a stubbed toe to a "towering inferno". The first arriving establishes IC, if the call remains small he also assumes the role of Operations. NIMS ICS can be expanded to fit the needs of the call... blah, blah, blah.

    -NIMS, since it covers all responders from local PD and FD to the National Guard, also states who is in charge of the scene; based on the type of call and experience levels of responders... blah, blah.

    Of course this is all academic, and relies heavily on drinking from the NIMS Kool-Aide. But don't fill the young Padawans head with NIMS doesn't matter. He could still grow up an run FEMA (if he has such qualifications as Commissioner of the Arabian Horses Association, yes dig on Michael Brown)


    You play their game in texas and we will do ours in Virignia. I was doing this job when everyone was doing the Fire Ground Commander thing long ago.

    We had command on every incident. We don't go hog wild with it. Our people know their jobs and we do it everyday. Thet RS guys isn't a fireman but one day wants to try to be one. He makes comments he n=knows nothing about and what others have said and he takes it as the truth.

  25. #50
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    just giveing input on my departments rules. nothing wrong with that
    Firefighters need not fear fire, but give it all their respect.

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