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  1. #21
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    Anyone who sympathizes with this department is a idiot. Rayr49 you call a fire department a governmental type agency; well most governmental agencies are messed up and this department is no different. If you have problems with funding you need to pursue other means. These guys need to be taken out and beaten. I'll bet if you put most of the guys together in this department you would be lucky to get a full set of teeth!


  2. #22
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    Sure Howells 22, resort to a calling anyone with a difference of opiniion an idiot. Come talk to me after you have forty+ years of career and VFD experience. Make sure a lot of that time is spent in planning, funding, public relations, and the hundred other things that make up a department. It's not all "put the wet stuff on the red stuff". Work with departments that have a budget of less than $5000.00 per year. We still do. The citizens know that their property will burn but all they can afford is a brush truck or two for a grass fire.


    What other avenues of funding do you propose? I guess that if you are convinced that most govermmental agencies are messed up then we should not have any.

    You have to fund the basics one way or another. We always had an increase in subscriptions when we won a court case because we made sure it was in the news. No one wants to see their name in the news on the losing side of a court case.

    The opinions of several of us on this thread are unpopular but most of us have "been there and done that" in one way or another. Maybe this will be the catalyst that causes the residents to form a fire district or provide some other means of funding for the department.

    Stay Safe
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  3. #23
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    this makes me mad. any person with a good heart would put out the fire if no one else would. once again....money. that's all anyone ever cares about anymore. money. now this man just lost his business because the fd is greedy.

  4. #24
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    Good heart does not buy fuel for the trucks, turnouts or anything else needed to fight the fire unless you are the "rich uncle" who wants to fund the department out of the "goodness of your heart"

    Stay Safe
    IACOJ

  5. #25
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    I will agree with you in hoping that this is a catalyst for change, but what happened was still wrong. When I suggest other methods of funding I mean billing for services or seeking political change. If you are going to be selective about to whom you provide your service to then I believe you should get out of the business. Just my opinion.

  6. #26
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    I would say that if the department is hard up enough they need to rely on subscription then you dont pay ....tough luck. We always say that the people will pay the amount of protection they want. So...................to darn bad I say ...........
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakebty
    this makes me mad. any person with a good heart would put out the fire if no one else would. once again....money. that's all anyone ever cares about anymore. money. now this man just lost his business because the fd is greedy.
    No, he lost it because HE was greedy. He did not pay for protection, he did not pay for insurance, he took a gamble and he lost. Simple. I'm sure you guys who disagree with the fd stand on this issue will be sending the property owner some of your hard earned money because he wouldn't spend any of his, right? Maybe you could stop paying your insurance and send the payments to him, because who likes paying their insurance bill anyway. Do you people drive uninsured? Do you have your property insured? Do you have life insurance? Medical insurance? Dental insurance? Drop it all and depend on the kindness of others, and when you have a problem tell me how far that gets you. One man's total lack of personal responsibility does not deserve one ounce of sympathy from me. I'm sure your checks are in the mail!
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  8. #28
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    No one plans on using their insurance till its too late. Should Allstate work the same way? Can I put them in my speedcall list, not pay anything, and wait till im in an accident to start a policy? Im sorry some departments have to operate like that, but the people they support know exactly what is expected of them. Why should one pay while the other doesn't, only to have the same benefit extended to the non-paid? What would their fund drive do next year?

  9. #29
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    I have to agree with you quint1officer. a person can not call the insurance company and say "yea i would like a fire insurance policy, by the way make it quick. My house is on fire now!" what do you think the response of the insurance company will be.
    Also, does anyone know if this is a private fire company or a government agency. If it is a private fire company than it is a bussiness. If you have a water leak in your house is a plumber going to fix it for free. Granted I feel that billing for service is a better way for the department to approach the matter instead of payment up front (that is my moral opion). However that is the way they operate just like alot of other companies, payment must be made up front before service is provided. For private fire companies it is a (for lack of better terms) profit company and not a non-profit government funded company.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkfiree1
    Also, does anyone know if this is a private fire company or a government agency. If it is a private fire company than it is a bussiness. If you have a water leak in your house is a plumber going to fix it for free. Granted I feel that billing for service is a better way for the department to approach the matter instead of payment up front (that is my moral opion). However that is the way they operate just like alot of other companies, payment must be made up front before service is provided. For private fire companies it is a (for lack of better terms) profit company and not a non-profit government funded company.
    They are a non-profit corporation, or "association" as statutes defines it.

    The biggest problem I see coming out of this is the FF's comments to the state trooper. They've done this a number of times, fought non-member fires for "buddies." Basically picking and choosing when they'll enforce the by-laws. This time it happens to be they enforced it with a minority and actually had the gall to tell a state trooper where someone could over-hear it that they'd fight the his fire.

    Something my department's been pondering... if you're not going to fight the fire, are you blocking traffic illegally by parking and blocking the entire road, or even trespassing if you enter the owners property?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by howells22
    Anyone who sympathizes with this department is a idiot. Rayr49 you call a fire department a governmental type agency; well most governmental agencies are messed up and this department is no different. If you have problems with funding you need to pursue other means. These guys need to be taken out and beaten. I'll bet if you put most of the guys together in this department you would be lucky to get a full set of teeth!
    Tell you what, skippy. We'll give you a few hours to post an apology. None of the people you are talking about, especially me, are "idiots".

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22
    They are a non-profit corporation, or "association" as statutes defines it.

    The biggest problem I see coming out of this is the FF's comments to the state trooper. They've done this a number of times, fought non-member fires for "buddies." Basically picking and choosing when they'll enforce the by-laws. This time it happens to be they enforced it with a minority and actually had the gall to tell a state trooper where someone could over-hear it that they'd fight the his fire.

    Something my department's been pondering... if you're not going to fight the fire, are you blocking traffic illegally by parking and blocking the entire road, or even trespassing if you enter the owners property?
    A business is permitted to donate their services to anyone they want. Businesses do it all the time. It may be a PR blunder, but it is certainly not a legal problem.

  13. #33
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    to save time, this is exactly what I posted in the thread on the main page. and here I am agreeing with Norm, Fred, our La buddy, and the big guy from chicago!!! is this a sign of the Apocalypse?
    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22
    "Several times I sai I would pay the fees or just send me a bill," said Rueda.

    According to the Monett Rural Fire Department membership office, firefighters cannot accept membership fees after a fire has started.
    right, because if they did allow that, no one would bother to pay the fees. they would just offer to pay if they needed the service. they put ads i the paper, had a stand at walmart, and told people about it at octoberfest. what do you want, every new resident gets a personal phone call and visit from a volunteer FF explaining how they work?
    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22
    Rueda, who was uninsured lost around $30,000 worth of cars and equipment in the fire.
    and yet, I have little sympathy. what he should have done was while the fire was burning, called his insurance company and set up a policy, to cover all of his stuff. this way after the fire, the company would write him a check to replace the damaged stuff.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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  14. #34
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    O.K. O.K I opoligize for the idiot comment; but I still believe the way they are set up and what happened is wrong. I think it would be better if they formed a district and had everyone pay their fair share; this way they would not have to make these choices.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by howells22
    O.K. O.K I opoligize for the idiot comment; but I still believe the way they are set up and what happened is wrong. I think it would be better if they formed a district and had everyone pay their fair share; this way they would not have to make these choices.
    Fair enough.

    What are you going to do to change it if you feel so strongly about it?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by howells22
    O I still believe the way they are set up and what happened is wrong. .

    You sir , can beleive anything you want as long as you want. That is a fact.



    I am going to express an opinion here as well. The homeowner probably moved to this town because it had the attractive "No "E" tax" which basically means you dont have to pay extra taxes for a fire department. Add to the matter that he also did NOT have any property insurance. I can sympathise with 18 days and no policy, but 18 months? Nope sorry, this guy wasnt concerned with fire protection

    What a lot of folks need to realize that there are places in this country that are DIFFERENT than where they are from. And just because folks somewhere else don't "Do it the same as here" doesnt mean its wrong.

    Ufortunately it will take a tragedy to change the minds of the general public.

    And as far a notification, the fire department can ( and should) work with the Realtors selling in the area to get the word out to new residents.
    Last edited by pvfire424; 02-17-2006 at 11:08 AM. Reason: minor spelling stuff again...
    I.A.C.O.J. "The Cork"

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by howells22
    ... everyone pay their fair share...

    It is funny you mention that, this guy paid his fair share & got EXACTLY What he paid for.
    I.A.C.O.J. "The Cork"

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvfire424
    It is funny you mention that, this guy paid his fair share & got EXACTLY What he paid for.
    .........touche` !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  19. #39
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    If someone wants to take the time to look it up, seems as though there are fulltime city departments that stop at the city line even if they can see the building burning on the other side of the street. I believe that there was something here on the forums about such a thing at one time. The places that get 2 men on an engine are getting what they are willing to pay for. We get four on a rig here while our more affluent neighbors get 3, sometimes 2. If they wanted to they could afford 5, but they do not desire to spend their money on fire protection.

  20. #40
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    As posted in the other discussion, he got exactly what he paid for, nothing. The fire department isn't greedy, they are doing a service with an associated fee. The shop owner felt he didn't need to pay it, or general loss insurance for that matter.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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