Department refuses to put out fire

[LaFireEducator]

Somehow I'm not picturing this department as greedy .... I don't think thier station probably has a tiki-bar or a restraunt grade kitchen. I doubt thier rigs have much in the way of diamond plate or frills.. Hell I'll even bet most of thier equipment has been around in the fire service as long as I have. To call a department "greedy" that in all probability just scraps by the pay the day to day operating expenses shows that you have very little appreciation of how a rural fire company operates.

[Catch22]

Somehow I'm not picturing this department as greedy .... I don't think thier station probably has a tiki-bar or a restraunt grade kitchen. I doubt thier rigs have much in the way of diamond plate or frills.. Hell I'll even bet most of thier equipment has been around in the fire service as long as I have. To call a department "greedy" that in all probability just scraps by the pay the day to day operating expenses shows that you have very little appreciation of how a rural fire company operates.

Knowing these guys, I don't think they're "greedy" by any means. Fact is, they could collect more money fighting non-member fires and billing like most other departments in the area. Truth be known, most of the firefighters don't agree with the policy. Most of them would have been glad to fight the fire, but won't for fear of being "fired" by the board.

I don't agree with their policy, but I do feel that you don't fight one non-member fire and then watch on the next. Then, you don't sit and watch blocking on of the more travelled roads into town. Either go home or sit on your member's property to watch.

I also don't think that a couple of fund-raisers at Wal-Mart and the Octoberfest, coupled with an ad in a paper most people don't subscribe to, especially the hispanic population is adequate notification of the membership requirements. The goal of the Wal-Mart and Octoberfest events are not to get the word out about memberships, it's to raise funds with cookouts or raffles and to do a little PR.

[enginehouse2]

Supposed you lived in this department's boundries. You pay your yearly dues, fees or subscription which ever applies. The bill comes and you pay it and feel safe about doing so.
Now it's 2AM and your house is on fire. You call 911 and request the Fire Department. You and your family are outside and your home goes from smoldering smoke emitting from the basement to a full blown fire enveloping the structure and no firefighters have arrived. 30 minutes pass and what was a savagable structure at first is now a pile of rubble and still no department has arrived after forty five minutes.
Before an hour passes a fire apparatus pulls up. Your enraged at the response time (not to mention your home burned down) and you greet the first firefighter with your anger.
HIS/HER RESPONSE. WE WERE ACROSS TOWN FIGHTING A NON- SUSCRIBERS HOUSE FIRE AND WE HAD TO PICK UP HOSE AND EQUIPMENT TO GET HERE.

[enginehouse2]

Also there is some liability when a department leaves their district or jursidiction unprotected and they are not on a mutual aid run.

[ChicagoFF]

I also don't think that a couple of fund-raisers at Wal-Mart and the Octoberfest, coupled with an ad in a paper most people don't subscribe to, especially the hispanic population is adequate notification of the membership requirements.

But I assume he knew about property insurance and he didn't want to pay for that either.

[RescueSquad343]

I will say they have some of the nicer equipment around the area for a membership department. They rarely apply for any kind of grant. But, at the same time, they have little training. Only 1, maybe 2 has any formal firefighting training (i.e. Firefighter I and II, or even the state's "basic firefighter skills" class). A couple more have taken first responder several years ago, but have never done much refreshing.

I'm not sure I would want to pay for "untrained" folks to be my PROTECTION!

I also don't think that a couple of fund-raisers at Wal-Mart and the Octoberfest, coupled with an ad in a paper most people don't subscribe to, especially the hispanic population is adequate notification of the membership requirements. The goal of the Wal-Mart and Octoberfest events are not to get the word out about memberships, it's to raise funds with cookouts or raffles and to do a little PR.

I agree. If you are going to require folks to pay for fire service, then that should be common knowldge to everybody in the area! I think at a minimum they should be required to send letters to every house and business in their area, or show up in person.

BTW, what do they do for fire prevention services? Do they only do Fire Inspections to members?

[RescueSquad343]

Supposed you lived in this department's boundries. You pay your yearly dues, fees or subscription which ever applies. The bill comes and you pay it and feel safe about doing so.
Now it's 2AM and your house is on fire. You call 911 and request the Fire Department. You and your family are outside and your home goes from smoldering smoke emitting from the basement to a full blown fire enveloping the structure and no firefighters have arrived. 30 minutes pass and what was a savagable structure at first is now a pile of rubble and still no department has arrived after forty five minutes.
Before an hour passes a fire apparatus pulls up. Your enraged at the response time (not to mention your home burned down) and you greet the first firefighter with your anger.
HIS/HER RESPONSE. WE WERE ACROSS TOWN FIGHTING A NON- SUSCRIBERS HOUSE FIRE AND WE HAD TO PICK UP HOSE AND EQUIPMENT TO GET HERE.

So it would be better to state "We were across town fighting ANOTHER SUSCRIBERS fire"?

There needs to be some kind of better dispatch/mutual aid system in place if any department could not handle 2 calls at the same time in their district.

[drive17kcfd]

How much time and money would be spent on taking this guy to court to collect monies owed? Chances are this guy would be gone with no forwarding address, there are many like that throughout the world.
I don't know where your from but in most of these small towns Walmart is the only place to shop. Most downtown businesses are closed due to Walmart. So, if this guy ever wanted everyday goods thats where he went, so he knew. Even if you only go down to the lake place every so often, you know if its paid by etax or subscription. Again I state that he knew 18 months was long enough.

[GeorgeWendtCFI]

YOu guys "what if" this to death and are so appalled by it-I'll ask the question again. If you are so upset and shocked by this, what are you (not anybody else but YOU) going to do about it?

[Catch22]

"BTW, what do they do for fire prevention services? Do they only do Fire Inspections to members?"

Last I knew, they don't provide any prevention or inspection services. Just some PR things here and there at events. They cover the area outside of the City of Monett, the City has their own department that's seperate. The rural area is primarily residential and farm land, with the occassional commercial property.



Enginehouse--
We've actually ran into similar situations before. The way we handle it is to call in mutual aid to fight the other fire. The one that jumps to mind is a day we had three fires withing an hour of each other. First one we were mutual aid, had a non-member call that we had mutual aid come in on, third was a member grass fire threatening a structure that we called another mutual aid and broke from the scene we were assisting on to handle.

Mutual aid in the area is typically only 5 mins at the most slower than another department's response.

[enginehouse2]

So it would be better to state "We were across town fighting ANOTHER SUSCRIBERS fire"?

There needs to be some kind of better dispatch/mutual aid system in place if any department could not handle 2 calls at the same time in their district.

Did you forget the non-subscriber is NOT in a district. So who calls whom for mutual aid?

[jakebty]

No, he lost it because HE was greedy. He did not pay for protection, he did not pay for insurance, he took a gamble and he lost. Simple. I'm sure you guys who disagree with the fd stand on this issue will be sending the property owner some of your hard earned money because he wouldn't spend any of his, right? Maybe you could stop paying your insurance and send the payments to him, because who likes paying their insurance bill anyway. Do you people drive uninsured? Do you have your property insured? Do you have life insurance? Medical insurance? Dental insurance? Drop it all and depend on the kindness of others, and when you have a problem tell me how far that gets you. One man's total lack of personal responsibility does not deserve one ounce of sympathy from me. I'm sure your checks are in the mail!

point taken. but why would anyone just stand there and watch a building burn? oh well, he didn't buy the insurance. his loss. i agree with you there. but about me sending my money...i will be honest. i am a minor. i only make about 30$ every two weeks for delivering papers. i wouldn't buy the fire insurance anyway...but that's just me. ways of funding a dept:
fundraisers
luncheons at the firehouse
etc

i don't want to argue about it though...

[hwoods]

OK......... Drum Roll, Please........... GEORGE IS RIGHT!. What are WE going to do about it?? Well, for openers, Start on some legislative action. Parts of America are not going to do anything to make their circumstances better until they're forced into it. Maryland REQUIRES every County to have a 911 Call center and a Central Dispatch Center for Fire/Rescue/EMS. So why doesn't every County in Mo. do the same? Because no one is pushing for it. We wanted things, we went to work and got the stuff we needed. What we've done can be copied in 49 other States, people just need to get off their ***** and go work for it. Some other tidbits from here: Mutual Aid is not an option, you WILL give/receive mutual aid. Mutual Aid is set up on a distance basis, you ALWAYS get the CLOSEST Help, without any suprises. Training is FREE, provided by the State, and meeting all National Pro Board and NFPA standards. EMS is operated by the Fire Service, Private EMS Operators are restricted to Non-Emergency work. Volunteers get a State Income Tax Deduction. Every Volunteer is covered by the State's Workers Comp. System. There is a revolving Loan Program for VFDs to use to purchase Apparaus and buildings, with a Interest rate of 1% The list goes on, but the point is that you don't have to live like those who are the subject of this thread, you just have to get some backbone and fix the problem. To start fixing the problems, I'll be contacting some friends on Capitol Hill (The one in Washington DC) about requirements for minimum service guarantees at the Federal Level.

[GFDSlappyRob]

Well I know of a similar situation near me!!! The names of FD's will be left anonymous. Well there is city 100,000+ people just south of my and there is a little POC FD on there southeastern edge which is actually considered that city, but for political reason they have thier own FD. Well there is a station for the bigger city about 3 or 4 bolck form that little area and when that little area gets a fire they can see the flames most of the time, but cannot respond and have to wait to be dispatched. Now I understand the reaosn why it just reminded of a similar situtation!!!

[ChicagoFF]

point taken. but why would anyone just stand there and watch a building burn? oh well, he didn't buy the insurance. his loss. i agree with you there. but about me sending my money...i will be honest. i am a minor. i only make about 30$ every two weeks for delivering papers. i wouldn't buy the fire insurance anyway...but that's just me. ways of funding a dept:
fundraisers
luncheons at the firehouse
etc

i don't want to argue about it though...

I wasn't picking on you specifically, you just had a post summerizing what others had said. I don't really expect anyone on here to send money to this guy, but it seems like everyone is in a generous mood when it comes to other peoples money. "They should have put it out - out of kindness" Where do you draw the line? Without funding there wouldn't be ANY fire protection in the area. They need gear, a firehouse, maintainance, fuel, electricity, water gas, etc. It isn't greed, but reality. Nothing is free in the world and you have to pay for things you want - including fire protection. I pay for mine through city taxes, they pay for theirs through subscription. We all pay for services, it's just a matter of how you collect it.

And about not wanting to argue....... Come on, arguing is fun!

[firefighter7160]

We had sometype of the same thing around here. But never a fire. Medical all the time. Most vol. fire dept's around here dont have the equipment to handle medical calls. Even just yeasterday a vol. FD was paged out MVA. The acting officer told 911 over the radio that they could not respond. And that they did not do medical calls. Is this a crime. If the FD is paged out do they have to responded. And if they dont who do you charge. Can they be sued. Im sure that the FD that the thread is about can be sued. If that was my place, I would have sued. If they had manpower and equipment they need to put out the fire.

[jakebty]

And about not wanting to argue....... Come on, arguing is fun!

that's fine about now wanting to pick on me. like i said i'm young and what i say sometimes to ff's may make 'em mad so i imediatly go on the defensive.
arguing is fun until you see your point is not going anywhere and you repeat everything you've already said. that's cool though. i wasn't picking on anyone in here either. yall have your opinion, i have mine. i won't judge you. now that all that is out of the way....

i can understand a department needs funding. why couldn't they put it out, then bill the guy later, like private ems?

[Weruj1]

also see the talkin goin on onver here >>> http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=78851