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  1. #21
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    Nozzleman you must to be over weight and under braked.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite

    the FDNY and othe big city guys will say use a 200 feet of 2 1/2 inch hose with a smoothbore nozzle.

    the rest of the world will say use 200 feet of 1 3/4 hose with a fog nozzle.
    Where would one find most highrises? Say in New York or other big cities? You don't have to be a suck up to admit then when certain groups do certains things, hundreds of times more than others, they may have developed some decent practices. I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from some one with Dr. in their title or a quote referring to haz-mat when the thread is about actual firefighting!

  3. #23
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    Nate, what in the hell are you doing posting at 730 in the morning? Anyway, I cant find the NIOSH reports since my computer took a dump last week and deleted most of my hard drive, but I posted a link earlier on this thread that spoke about the reports, as well as choosing a hoseline and nozzle for interior attack.

    http://fe.pennnet.com/articles/arti...DS=Comella&p=25

    For those who didnt see it. Great article.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  4. #24
    Forum Member NDeMarse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl
    Nate, what in the hell are you doing posting at 730 in the morning? Anyway, I cant find the NIOSH reports since my computer took a dump last week and deleted most of my hard drive, but I posted a link earlier on this thread that spoke about the reports, as well as choosing a hoseline and nozzle for interior attack.

    http://fe.pennnet.com/articles/arti...DS=Comella&p=25

    For those who didnt see it. Great article.
    Had to run another Illinoisian down for his medical this morning at 05:30. Hopped on when I got home. I will look for the NIOSH reports also.

    Good article!
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman
    Man, we carry two 100' sections of five inch line (wrapped with Italian leather with titanium buckles), with triple 500gpm fog nozzles, 18 spanner wrenches (both metric and standard), a 50 horsepower portable booster pump (with jet-siphon assist), and a water thief (all 5" connections).

    LMAO!!

    Good one Nozz.
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  6. #26
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    My department utilizes 150 ft 1 3/4 attack line with a fog nozzle secured with nylon straps, bags seem to be too much of a hassle, irons, two spanner wrenches, and search rope. Of course we'll more than likely take other tools up with us.

  7. #27
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DugdogFiredog
    My department utilizes 150 ft 1 3/4 attack line with a fog nozzle.........
    Just wondering......what kind of buildings do you have? And why 1.75" line?

  8. #28
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    We have two residential high rises, one is 7 stories the other is 11. Also both have interior masonary construction dividing the rooms and throughout the hallways, so very little combustables outside of the rooms. And because of the masonary walls and ceilings between the apartments the fire is very unlikely to jump from room to room. So we cary a smaller diameter, more managable attack line in our highrise packs.

  9. #29
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DugdogFiredog
    We have two residential high rises, one is 7 stories the other is 11. Also both have interior masonary construction dividing the rooms and throughout the hallways, so very little combustables outside of the rooms. And because of the masonary walls and ceilings between the apartments the fire is very unlikely to jump from room to room. So we cary a smaller diameter, more managable attack line in our highrise packs.
    Ok...I see what you are saying that there is little chance of it to jump, but the problem is the blow torch effect created by the wind. What part of the country do you work in? Next time you in the 11 story bldg, which is my concern......open a top floor window and the apt door see how much wind is produced. Remember that the byproducts of combustion also burn. Your typical apt will have enough combustible to make conditions real bad. The smoke and heat in the hallway have no place to go....venting is a problem in these buildings. So that stuff is just going to stay in your mush. And if everything is made of Masonary.....that's what I call the pizza oven effect. You can take a serious beating just humping hose in that kind of environment. And the rate at which the water will evoporate is amazing. The stream from a 1.75" line may not even make the seat of the fire. Kind of like ****ing into the wind. The other day my company operated at 2 seperate high rise fires....one on the 25th floor and another on the 7th. Each one self vented and autoexposed the floors above. There are pictures of both jobs on the net, but I won't use them w/o permission......(ohhhhhh NATE.... ) Both were real hot fires
    that presented some serious problems. I wouldn't have wanted anything less than the 2.5" . Actually, for the first fire on the 25th floor, the fire was in a back bedroom, and being held rather well with a can, until the window gave out, then (2) 2.5" flowing 500 gpm were needed to just HOLD the fire....the first due Engine and the Boss of the 1st Due truck all were burnt. And in another bourogh about 2 months ago.....members were trapped in a bldg that killed 3 members in the 90s......I think it was an 11 story Fireproof.....the same situation, a window gave out, and fire errupted, the nozzle also melted.....and that was on (1) 2.5".........

  10. #30
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Vinnie, Nate, Fred, 229Lt, does anyone know if there is a way to get the pass along bulletins online so we can paste them here? The last pass along had the picture of the job in Queens, and the completely roasted masonry hallway of the fire floor. ( I think just scanning a copy would lose too much detail in the pic)
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    I'm in Western PA, about 45 minutes north of Pittsburgh. We're obviously not as busy of a department as yours is, but we do get a fair share of fires, but not many in the high rises. Even mutual aid to other nearby towns and cities we don't get many fires in the high rises We've only had one fire in the 11 story high rise over the past year, and the biggest problem we encountered at that fire wasn't the fire itself, but evacuating all the residents to safety. And yes, it was like a pizza oven in that apartment, even though it was a rather small fire and knocked down quickly.

  12. #32
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    I'm in Western PA, about 45 minutes north of Pittsburgh. We're obviously not as busy of a department as yours is, but we do get a fair share of fires, but not many in the high rises. Even mutual aid to other nearby towns and cities we don't get many fires in the high rises We've only had one fire in the 11 story high rise over the past year, and the biggest problem we encountered at that fire wasn't the fire itself, but evacuating all the residents to safety. And yes, it was like a pizza oven in that apartment, even though it was a rather small fire and knocked down quickly.
    Just because you only have 1 or 2 fires doesnt justify only using 1 3/4. Its like bringing a knife to a gun fight. If the windows have held, most of the fires are fairly quick knockdowns because of the compartmentalized rooms. But when the windows fail, and a door is left open (or gets blown open by the blowtorch, which was the case in Brooklyn a few years back), an 1 3/4 isnt going to make it down that hallway and into the apt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DugdogFiredog
    I'm in Western PA, about 45 minutes north of Pittsburgh. We're obviously not as busy of a department as yours is, but we do get a fair share of fires, but not many in the high rises. Even mutual aid to other nearby towns and cities we don't get many fires in the high rises We've only had one fire in the 11 story high rise over the past year, and the biggest problem we encountered at that fire wasn't the fire itself, but evacuating all the residents to safety. And yes, it was like a pizza oven in that apartment, even though it was a rather small fire and knocked down quickly.

    Just because you aren't "busy" doesn't mean you won't get f*cked at a highrise job. The fire yesterday has nothing to do with the fire you will have tomorrow. They are completely independent events.

    A couple of the LODD high-rise jobs in NYC have happened in Starret City, Brooklyn and in Rockaways, Queens...including the one last month that almost ended up just like the ones before. The brothers in the Rockaways will tell you themselves they are far from the busiest companies in the city yet they've had LODDs and they've had many close calls.

    The buildings were around the 10-12 story range and all are compartementilized with masonry like yours are. That isn't something unique to your area.

    Either you learn from the lessons from other depts and follow NFPA 14 or you choose to tempt fate and wait until your number is up and you burn or kill one of your own to finally make the change.

    Up until now you have been lucky...do some reasearch...you will find you are making a mistake that has been made before many times.

    FTM-PTB

  14. #34
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DugdogFiredog
    I'm in Western PA, about 45 minutes north of Pittsburgh. We're obviously not as busy of a department as yours is, but we do get a fair share of fires, but not many in the high rises. Even mutual aid to other nearby towns and cities we don't get many fires in the high rises We've only had one fire in the 11 story high rise over the past year, and the biggest problem we encountered at that fire wasn't the fire itself, but evacuating all the residents to safety. And yes, it was like a pizza oven in that apartment, even though it was a rather small fire and knocked down quickly.
    I am sure it is just as windy is Western PA as it is here. And like FFRED said.....you are tempting fate. And it doesn't matter how busy you are. It only take one time........

    Just imagine if the windows went.....that pizza oven will be out in the hallway. There was a fire here in NY, Queens I think, it was a "fireproof" building, which the fire go out into the hallway, they too had nothing combustible, but the fire was so intense that it burned all the gypsum away , cracked the brick behind it and completely incineratred everything in the hall and a stairwell. When I go to work tommorrow, I'll dig the perticulars out, they are in my locker somewere.

    You did elude to the other major problem in these fires....fleeing occupants. We like to use attack and evac stairs......its tough to manage them too. And we have to manage ourselves as well.....8 members in a stairwell is a tough fit......

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    I see your point, and it's very valid, but we could go back and forth on this subject for ever. The packs we have have worked for us, and hopefully will continue to work for us. Coincidently, the packs we have in my department are almost identical to the high rise packs I used as a firefighter in the Air Force. And no, I did not have any say in the design of either. But because of your guys incite, I will bring this subject up to my department.

  17. #37
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    nyckftbl The link doesn't work.

  18. #38
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    Sorry, these new fangled computer things arent exactly my forte....lol...ill try again later...
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    LOL....Thanks Fred....
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