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    Ok Vinnie, now you have peaked my curosity and I just can't wait for another thread .... Why was it a bad idea to use to use the Tower as an exterior standpipe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    Ok Vinnie, now you have peaked my curosity and I just can't wait for another thread .... Why was it a bad idea to use to use the Tower as an exterior standpipe?
    100 ft. of hose, a utility rope and something to tie off to are about $844,500 cheaper.

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    Using the bucket to supply the attack line leaves the bucket unavailable for rescues, both of civilians and possibly the FF's themselves. Of course, IF you had other ladders/buckets available and in place, that is of less concern.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Automatic mutual aid brought 1 additional aerial to any working fires in the particuliar dorms, with a 3rd automatically dispatched if the call came in as working fire or first unit on scene reported a working fire. 2 additional aerials would be available with 10-12 minutes if needed, for a total of 5.

    That's why it was not an issue to commit 1 aerial to that function. The primary plan was for use to stretch the 3" supply line up the stairwell. The 4" was simply a backup plan if there as a large voume of fire which required a line stretched to the floor above or below as well as the fire floor, and was very dependant on manpower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    Ok Vinnie, now you have peaked my curosity and I just can't wait for another thread .... Why was it a bad idea to use to use the Tower as an exterior standpipe?
    This is taught in every major text out there that addresses the issue that I've read. Do some research. I also doubt they are teaching this at FHEXPO or FDIC...anyone who have taken the HOT know for sure. There is more than enough experience out there to justify not using this procedure. Think about all the logistics behind breaking windows...company would more than likely have to come from the inside to pick out the room nearest the stairs and then stretch from there into the stairs and up to the next floor. This involves searching for the right room...forcing a few doors and then cleaning out a window completely and then stretching anywhere from 4 to 6+ lengths to the fire apartment(s).

    How many times has yours or other departments experimented with this procedure and how does it compare to a rope stretch or hand stretch?

    In the same amount of time it takes to perform this evolution you could have done it via another method and you haven't tied up one aerial at all.

    As for commiting an aerial and waiting up to 10-12 mintues for another...that is as unrealistic as anything I've ever seen written on here. Someone appears at a window ready to jump and the only ladder which can reach that window is tied up...if they are already panicing do you think they will wait?

    PS-To everyone...there is a decent article in Fire Engineering this month (MARCH 2006) regarding stanpipe operations.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 03-30-2006 at 01:27 PM.

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    FFred..

    I don't doubt your knowledge but this was the plan for the college dorms only.
    Rooms were easily idetifiable. No doors to force as we have master keys. Windows were split vertically opened outward - only thing to force was a light screen and that could be pushed in. We did train on it several times, and found it to be a very viable option, almost as fast as lifting with a rope, and depending on manpower, a little quicker than a stairwell strectch. It was less tiring on the crew as they could ride up and not have to carry equipment. It was not our primary plan, but was a plan (if not required for a rescue or direct fire attack through a window) that could be used as it allowed for more equipment to be brought up with less effort.

    As far as aerials we had ours and 1st due mutual aid arriving there at about the same time. 3rd due (2nd due mutual aid) aerial would be arriving at most 3-4 minutes later if it was reported as a fire or updated as a fire (college security usually on-scene within 1 minute, so reliable updated info came very quickly) . 4th and 5th due aerials were the ones that were 10-12 minutes out if needed.

    Neighboring department also experimented with this on a few large apartment buildings with less success than in our dorm situation.

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    Default high rise packs

    all these posts have some valid points, however there are some items that are missing such as friction loss in a high rise when calculating nozzle pressure. Nozzle tip pressure is just one aspect of figuring out what we need. E mail me off my site and we can talk...good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireground1
    all these posts have some valid points, however there are some items that are missing such as friction loss in a high rise when calculating nozzle pressure. Nozzle tip pressure is just one aspect of figuring out what we need. E mail me off my site and we can talk...good luck
    And you are...
    And your site is...

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