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  1. #21
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    Talking Ifs

    Pierce is not the only one with IFS. Just about anyone can get it. Most, if not all have 17" front disc brakes. IFS has been around for quite a while. It just took a while to get to the fire market. Just like rear air ride. Kenworth had IFS in the '70's.


  2. #22
    Forum Member IronsMan53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    Actually, we have a rig with the Telma, a rig with the full sized Jake, both with straight axels and disc brakes. Our rig with the IFS has, as you call it, a punny exhaust brake. Guess which one stops the best? Yup, the IFS rig.

    Again, I have ko idea how or why, I just know Ive braked hard with all three (on more then one occasian) and the IFS rig stops the best.

    One more thing, Ive experianced a bit of brake fade on long runs with the two standard axle rigs. Have yet to experiance it with the IFS rig over the same distance.
    I think what you are experiencing is the difference in disk brakes vs drum brakes or even disk brakes with larger rotors vs smaller rotors. Or maybe even comparing a rig that the brakes require manual slack adjustment vs one that is auto adjusting (the older manual adjustment rigs may not be adjusted optimally). There are many other factors than just the IFS. I don't think that everything can be attributed to just that.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

  3. #23
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    One issue that gunnyv has talked about is how the truck will handle on the rough roads you have. We have noticed that when on a rough road, the driver has more control as we hit the holes, washboards, etc. A straight axle must have some type of reaction on the opposite side when a tire falls into a pothole. If one side goes down, the other must come up. This may effect the traction the "up" tire can maintain with the road. With the independent suspension, what happens to the right side has no effect on what happens on the left side.....
    Another issue is the amount of weight the independent front suspension can carry. I saw a TAK4 with a front axle rating of 22,000 lbs. delivered to Lexington KY in March '06. That's a lot of weight compared to the straight axle found under most fire apparatus.
    Last edited by LFD2203; 04-01-2006 at 11:22 PM.

  4. #24
    Forum Member gunnyv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFD2203
    One issue that no one has talked about is how the truck will handle on the rough roads you have. We have noticed that when on a rough road, the driver has more control as we hit the holes, washboards, etc.

    I said that!! Post #16 in the thread.

    ""I've ridden trucks with and without the IFS, and I believe the smoother ride allows the driver better control and braking simply because the rig doesn't bounce all over the road.""

  5. #25
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    post has been edited. please accept my most humble apology.

  6. #26
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
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    Call me old fashion...

    While there is no doubt that IFS in cars and light trucks has done much to improve the ride and handling, I miss the solid axle pickup and am leary of them in heavy trucks simply because there are none out there. Remember it was not all that long ago that Pierce was telling us the All-Steer was the cat's meow. Until there are more trucks on the road with it I'm not willing to be a test subject. Much credit needs to go to Pierce for being on the cutting edge of chassis developement, but some times I think they are pushing too far ahead. E-One has come out with their "Enhanced Ride System" as have other manufacturers which promises everything the IFS does based on a conventional axle which means cheaper and more common parts, especially once things start breaking. Imagine the pickle you may find yourself in trying to get a lower ball joint in 15 years if this technology does not catch on.
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  7. #27
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    I think there are more TAK-4's in service than what you think. Oshkosh truck has been putting them in military vehicles for quite a while from what I understand. Then when they bought Pierce....they brought that technology to Pierce and the firetruck industry. I think the majority of the trucks rolling off of the line at Pierce have the TAK-4 in them. Anyone have any numbers or percentages on how many have the IFS vs. non-IFS????

  8. #28
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter1244
    I think the majority of the trucks rolling off of the line at Pierce have the TAK-4 in them.
    I don't doubt that Pierce is making a lot of them, but fire trucks as a whole make up far less than 1% of the heavy truck market. I'll be more comfortable with the technology when I see Kenworth and International putting it into a class 8 chassis.

    I just visited the Tak-4 web site and here's a quote:
    Oshkosh has subjected its rugged, patented design to more than 80,000 miles of performance and durability testing in some of the harshest environments and terrains imaginable.
    I hope this is a misprint, cause 80,000 miles is absolutely nothing impressive on a heavy truck. 8 million miles of torture testing might impress me, but 80K, I know guys who drive twice that much in a single year on a single truck.
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  9. #29
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Since NON IFS trucks have been around since truck 1,I would say it's safe to assume that NON IFS trucks outnumber IFS trucks by probably 10 to 1.In very conservative numbers.IFS currently would make up a very small portion of the Nations fleet,military included. I'm with 304,I like the concept but I want someone else to do the testing.And on the Northeast sector,not an Arizona test track. T.C.

  10. #30
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    Well there is at least several thousand in service right now in Iraq. All of the new transport trucks which are replacing the older 6X6's are made by OTC for the military.

  11. #31
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
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    sven, you may have better info than I, I know the HEMTT A3 (the new hybrid model) has the TAK-4 suspension, but to the best of my knowlege (and Oshkosh's website) that's it, the older A1 and A2 HEMTTs use a different suspension as do the MTVR (the 7ton 6X6). Anyone know for sure?
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter1244
    I think there are more TAK-4's in service than what you think. Oshkosh truck has been putting them in military vehicles for quite a while from what I understand. Then when they bought Pierce....they brought that technology to Pierce and the firetruck industry. I think the majority of the trucks rolling off of the line at Pierce have the TAK-4 in them. Anyone have any numbers or percentages on how many have the IFS vs. non-IFS????
    What? Another non-innovative Pierce innovation?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  13. #33
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    Fire304- The MTVR is also equipped with the TAK-4. That was the truck I was referring to. I believe the original contract was for 5,000 of this type of truck

  14. #34
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
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    On a sad related note, 5 marines were killed in Iraq when their MTVR was swept away in a flash flood, three more are missing. That must have been one hell of a flash flood because that's one hell of a big truck.

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  15. #35
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    Does anyone have any experience with the Seagrave Air Ride IFS? Is the steering as touchy as the TAK4 at highway speeds?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    YES! Its fantastic. Not only the best ride you will ever experience in a piece of fire apparatus, but you get better manuverability and a shorter stopping distance. And as far as maintenance, our 02 Pierce pumper with the TAK4 suspension has almost 38K miles on it, and it still doesnt need new front brakes. Its amazing. My department will never again buy a rig without it.
    What he said!! We have a 2004 Pierce with TAK4 and it is a whole other world. This is the biggest truck we have and it can make 180's in cuedesacs and circles that no other small apparatus can do.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  17. #37
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    Spartan, Pierce, Ferrara, and Seagrave all can be had with IFS, any others?


    edit: Ferrara
    Last edited by BVFD1983; 05-18-2006 at 12:30 AM.
    FTM - PTB

  18. #38
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    Spartan, Pierce, and Seagrave all can be had with IFS, any others?
    Do you know if the TaK 4 is standard on all pierce chassis , except on the Saber which is N/A ?

  19. #39
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    I have no idea, check out their website.
    FTM - PTB

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdaenterprises
    Iím not sure of the long-term maintenance cost, it concerns me that if this is such a great innovations, why haven't over the road trucks gone to it, initial cost vs. lower maintenance?
    Costs more, weighs more, and requires some rearranging to fit. Dana has it on their concept truck but nobody is demanding it so the OEMs aren't going to spend the money to engineer it. Fleet Owner Article

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