Thread: PPE in 2006

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    Default PPE in 2006

    One of my fire Chiefs just brought in the bid for PPE to apply for in the 2006 grant.

    It was $1995...

    so, my question...How much is allowed/granted by the AFG for head to toe PPE?

    Also, what is the TIC amount this year? They want a higher end TIC, but I dont think AFG offers that much money.

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    My department received a grant at the end of last year, and one of the items included was PPE. We alloted $2,000 per set for turnout gear, not including helmets though. We're looking to buy PBI or Advanced Nomex outer shell gear. Most of the vendors who have given us bids have not had a problem meeting the $2,000/set budget. Also included with the turnout coat and pants are leather boots.

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    $1200 is/was the limit for just pants and coats, JKP is right in that it is/was $2000 per head to toe including hood, pants, coats, boots, gloves, and helmet.

    Hopefully that changes since the new NFPA standard with the integrated drag harness is looking like it's going to be passed, and since you can't get too many things for nothing, obviously the price of PPE with the harness stitched on it is going to cost more.

    $10K is still the TIC limit.

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    $2,000 for tunrout gear?? Are you kidding? If you are getting quotes for that much, you are getting hosed my friend. Even if you are getting PBI and the top of the line. You should be able to outfit someone head to toe with top of line gear and leather boots for $2,000. The drag harness is going to be another $75 to $100 per coat depending on manufacturer. As far as I know, NFPA has not yet set a firm date on when it is being implemented though. It was supposed to be March 1st but that has been pushed back to July / August time frame with a compliance by the fall for the manufacturers.

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    Yeah, but most of the manufacturers are already geared up for the March time frame, and have been producing the new PPE for a bit. Same way that if you try and order a truck after July it will be the 2007 EPA requirements. We're buying twin pumpers and we were told it had to be on line before the end of July. I can't remember if that was engine bolted to chassis by July 31st, or just on the assembly line in general. Details, who needs 'em.

    Another neat Cliff Clavin fact I found out was that 80% of the Kevlar being produced in the country is being made into body armor for the troops, so those PPE blends that use Kevlar are going to be longer in the make than usual. Can't say it isn't going to a good cause though.

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    The $2,000 was a head-to-toe limit, i'd still want the break-down for the bunker pant/coat portion to be under $1,200 for audit. We came in at $1,179 (no drag strap) plus boots, helmets, structural and extrication gloves, hoods, personal flashlight. Looks like we'll have enough left over for another set of bunkers and a helmet.

    Again, "turnout ensemble" is complete outfit, "bunker gear" is pants/coat.
    earl

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    Default This Drag Harness

    A little off topic and I appologize but this drag harness does that mean any gear without it will have to be retro fitted or all new gear purchased? Also are we talking about something like the Save A Jak thing?

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    I apologize for any misunderstandings. Our quote of under $2,000 a set was including Coat (Including Drag Rescue Device), Pants, Leather Boots, Fire Gloves, and Pelican Flashlights. Gear would be PBI outer shell.

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    Just new gear purchased will have to meet it.

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    I just got a the prices on some gear today. Didnt think I went with top of the line but this seems pretty high to me.

    Crosstech EMS rescue Jacket and Pants, Nomex shell with white reflexite
    Coat options
    Leather cuff
    Snap in nylon liner
    crosstech hood

    Pant options
    Leather cuff
    Snap in nylon lyner
    Bellows
    Leather Knees

    Reflective lettering and Star of life on back of coat

    Total cost $1,554.00

    Leather gloves with kevlar wrist protection $84.00
    Bullard PX contemprary helmet $169.99
    Pro-warrington 14" boots $339.99
    Xback elastic suspenders $32.00

    That comes to $2,179.98 per person

    We want to give all of the EMT's on our rescue service PPE for rescue scenes we currently have none. What are your thoughts on the prices? I know that the boots seem pretty high but I didnt want to skimp on them.

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    NPFA compliant PPE for Rescue is actually more expensive than structural PPE. Extrication jumpsuits really aren't compliant, so while eligible and somewhat protective, they don't completely do the job.

    The boot price is about $100 more than I've seen it. Gloves about 2x. Helmet price is about right. Going by the something is better than nothing rule, remember there's less than $9 million available for Rescue Squad & EMS agencies. Excessive will get tossed quick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rolandthunder
    I just got a the prices on some gear today. Didnt think I went with top of the line but this seems pretty high to me.

    ......

    We want to give all of the EMT's on our rescue service PPE for rescue scenes we currently have none. What are your thoughts on the prices? I know that the boots seem pretty high but I didnt want to skimp on them.
    Single Purchase in Mid 2004 (1 Set for g/f in Medic School) all from MES-Firebrand
    Globe EMS Coat (C2600X) - Large $432.00
    - Star of Life on Front
    - American Flag
    - I/D Acc & Velcro Strip w/ name
    - Pen/Pencil Pocket
    - Mic Strap for Radio Pocket

    EMS Parka Hood $28.00

    EMS Fleece Coat Liner $60.00

    Globe EMS Pants (P2600) - Large $315.00
    - Kevlar Belt
    - Belt Loops
    - Suspenders

    Bullard LT Helmet w/ Goggles - $110

    AFG quoted price for gear just purchased
    Bullard USRX w/ Goggles - $115

    14" Leather boots
    Black Diamond - $220 from MES-Firebrand
    Thorogood - $196 from Slagles / $200 from MES-Firebrand
    Pro Warrington - #318.95 from e-darly.com

    Now you asked for my thoughts - here goes.
    Boots - I have worn Pro Warrington 5000's for a little over 2 years. Having tried all the various boots available to us, my dept. settled on the Black Diamond boot (w/ Heel Lock). Now not having been able to wear them for a long period of time yet - I honestly can't see the added $$ to go PW. there are more cost effective boots on the market.

    Helmet - Based on my own observations and the fact that my whole dept. switched to these when I never even dreamed they would - I think you should at least look at the USRX helmet. Esp. since you're looking for EMS/Rescue only usage. I think that it's lower profile design will have members still wearing this helmet in situations that they may have taken others off (i.e. inside person at MVA and other "tight" areas).

    Vendor(s) - I have had nothing but good dealings with MES-Firebrand here in VA. I have also read good things about other area's dealings with MES companies. It may well be worth your time to look up the closes dealer to you and give them a shout.

    Other than that - Good luck with the shopping.
    Last edited by N2DFire; 03-02-2006 at 01:53 PM.
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    Rolandthunder-

    The prices that you were quoted seem fairly excessive. It seems as though this dealer possibly quoted you list prices for the purpose of the grant. The problem with this practice is that you technically only have $5,000 of extra funds to spend in regards to bids coming in lower. I would check with this vendor and another regarding EMS gear with the same specifications. That way it will give him time to make sure he/she was correct and so that you may compare apples to apples. N2DFire's prices are more in line with current pricing. His gear was purchased in 2004 and prices slightly rose on Globe Lifeline in 2005. PW Boot pricing is a little high....check around for more competetive pricing.

    BC79er, EMS/Tech Rescue gear is rarely more costly than a traditional coat and pants. Even Tech Rescue gear with a Millenia Outer Shell and Crosstech Moisture Barrier and several options will rarely be more expensive than firefighting gear. Lower-end brands or material combinations could get you some structural gear in the $800-$1000 range, but most F.D.'s are buying at least an Advance (Nomex/Kevlar Blend) Outer Shell with other lightweight breathable components.

    Rolandthunder, I would be happy to provide you with a competetive quote for comparision purposes, You are not in my sales territory for EMS gear, but at least you would have some figures to go by. Contact me offline for more info.

    rfd599
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    I got some better prices today.Ive checked with about four differant venders and this is more along the lines of what I was thinking

    Jacket $452.00
    Pants $399.20
    Gloves $39.60
    Boots $306.90
    Helmet $150.70

    Total per person $1,348.40

    It took about 20 grand off of my grant so its looking a lot better.
    Those prices are with an extra 10% markup to account for time between now and purchase. It also has markup for special order sleeves length, inseams and sizes for some of us bigger guys.

    I also contacted Kurt with Chiefs grants to help me get this written. I think that I am on the right track. I have been contacting all of my local Infrastructure contacts, my county EM director and have started to write the grant.

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    Are the dollar amount limits for PPE (and other categories) published somewhere? I tried searching through the '06 guidance document but didn't see it in there anywhere.

    Thanks,

    Andy

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    Default Reduction this Year

    We were notified that our pant and coat was reduced from $1500.00 to $1325.00

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    The AFG has limits based on particular items, but they are not published. The limits that have been posted are based on info posted by various members on what they recieved for funding or what they were reduced to.

    These figures can change year to year based on flucuations in pricing.

    An example is Goose's posting. In past years coat & pants were set at
    $1200. His was reduced to $1325, which appears to be the max that will be funded. Why the increase? Manufacturers cost increases plus the change to the standard which requires DRD's.

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    $1200 is still the ball park figure to shoot for the pant and coat. $2000 for head to toe.
    Last edited by ktb9780; 12-26-2006 at 01:00 PM.
    Kurt Bradley
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    They don't publish the list because they don't want people just asking for the max and not actually getting accurate pricing when applying. Plus they don't want the vendors to just high bid everything instead of being competitive with that at award time. We had an informal one going in a thread around here somewhere. SLY started it, can't remember the title right about now either. I think we covered most of the categories based on the reductions people had this year. Head to toe PPE went from $2000/set to $2200 I believe. I did have one department get announced for $1500 for pants and coats but most were under $1400 anyway so they weren't reduced.

    And before y'all ask how that award happened: It depends on how the type of PPE and features of that PPE were explained on why those particular sets cost more. Rhetorical answer, didn't require a question.

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    Sly's thread
    To those with reductions
    can be found at:

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=85217

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    Good info...thanks everyone!

    Andy

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