I was just wondering what everyone is hearing from manufacturers about when they will stop taking orders for 2006 engines? I have heard a few different things and it seems like no one seems to know anything concrete, any help is appreciated!
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Thread: 2007 EPA Dates?
03-06-2006, 02:16 AM #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
2007 EPA Dates?
03-06-2006, 03:27 AM #2
Spartan has more or less said that orders must be in to them by mid-summer 2006 to receive a pre-2007 spec powerplant.
However, there is also the anticipation that a lot of the large over the road fleet operators are going to dump massive orders for rigs to avoid the extra costs associated with the changes to the new emissions requirement. No one knows exact amounts, so of course, things could change quite a bit. Fuel efficiency is also supposed to drop with the new engines, which will have a much bigger effect for these folks.
Nothing like one of those "depends" answers...
I suspect just about every builder will start (or already has) a nice clause in any bids/contracts stating they won't be responsible if 2006 spec engines aren't available, etc., so they won't be stuck with a rather large extra to eat if something bad happens.
03-06-2006, 09:16 AM #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
I have been told that the only engine manufacturer to deliver an engine to Spartan for testing is Detroit. I'm sure Cummins and Cat aren't too far behind and with all of them, I feel confident that the first generation engines that meet the 2007 EPA guidelines will be rushed to market with brand new technology and could potentially be very problematic.
My department just ordered a new engine and we made sure that we would NOT be getting a 2007 engine in the chassis. We did not want to run the risk of getting an engine that we would expect to serve for 20 years that would be problematic because it was rushed to the market. We also didn't want to pay the price increase that the manufacturers will almost certainly pass on the the customer.
I have not heard any clarification regarding how the EPA has worded the change. "Engines manufactured after XXX date" and "Engines sold after XXX date" and "Chassis manufactured after XXX date" and "Chassis sold after XXX date" are all very, very different and could change the availability of pre-2007 engines dramatically.
03-06-2006, 09:28 AM #4
My understanding from Cummins is that they WILL NOT have to make any radical changes to meet the 07 standard.Rather they are adding a catalyst component to the exhaust along with a couple software changes to achieve compliance.Oh,it's a little more involved,but they've already had the new stuff in on road testing and it's working. T.C.
03-06-2006, 02:54 PM #5
- Join Date
- Feb 2002
- Cypress, TX
I heard the same as TC, the Cummins that was being put in early 2006 trucks was already passed and the Cat was close behind it.
We're building twin pumpers this year instead of one each year to avoid having the new motors ourselves, and we were told that we needed order early enough to have motor in chassis by the end of July or it would be the new one.
03-06-2006, 03:45 PM #6
Driving class 8 Trucks part time, you run into different people when you make stops. Talking to one guy with a 475 horse Detroit, that was set up for the new EPA Requirements said that the engine pulls like a freight train on flat ground. He said the thing has more torque than you could possibly ask for on flat ground, but as soon as you start up the slightest incline, it goes flat. Nothing. He ends up dropping multiple gears to get it up the slightest incline.
He was not very impressed with it. This may hurt fire companies that have a variety of hills. Needless to say, I want to keep my mechanically injected engines.Service is the rent you pay for having space on earth.
03-07-2006, 08:04 AM #7
HFR,Unless you're running some old iron like us,you haven't had "mechanical"injected engines for a few years now.Even the "kittys"are/are going HEUI.That being said,I like the mechanicals too. T.C.
03-07-2006, 01:38 PM #8
All our diesels are old iron, our newest diesel is a 1994 model, T444E International. We don't have anything that is common rail.Service is the rent you pay for having space on earth.
03-07-2006, 03:24 PM #9
Freightliner is currently sold out of Class 8 build slots for 2006. M2 112 chassis with MBE engines are also sold out.
Get your orders in!
03-08-2006, 01:06 AM #10
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- Tuttle, Oklahoma
HFRH28, I am not trying to start an argument here but form what i have been told by detroit is that they are doing away with the 60 series for 2007 and coming out with a new engine that was a collaboration between them and MBE. Smartest thing they could have done if you ask me. Now he very well maybe talking about an engine that meets the 2005 emissions. The epa did up the standards for 2005 just not as much as they will for 2007. As far as the power, there are software updates that i do on a daily bases that could help him drastically but that is another story. Tell him to go to his local dealership.
03-08-2006, 08:34 AM #11
Hehe BCFD,You heard WRONG! The 60 is going nowhere and will be 2007 compliant.You didn't really think the backbone of DDA was going to disappear did you? They WILL be offering compliant MBE's as well. I do NOT share your fondness for the MBE's,ever work on one?Not going to affect my operations,we're 100% Cummins.Any questions can be answered at the Detroit diesel website. T.C.
03-08-2006, 12:41 PM #12
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Las Vegas,Nevada
Just read in the In Service On Line newsletter that if you want an engine prior to the new epa standards it will have to be ordered this year or your stuck with the new more expensive stuff.
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