Thread: "Driveway" Lays

  1. #1
    Forum Member
    fftrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Northern, NJ
    Posts
    889

    Default "Driveway" Lays

    The bright folks that run our town building/planning depts decided a couple years back to change all remaining building lots to either 3 or 5 acre minimum lot size.... to them it means pristine beauty and open spaces...what this means to us is long ***** driveways.

    We want to be able to run 5" up the driveway but how do you overcome coming up short? We currently have like 16 or 1800 ft of 3" and want to switch to a split load of 5" and 3" as we have about 1000' of 5" on the shelf at the station looking for somewhere to be used. We wanted to move unload the entire hosebed, shift the divider over so we could stack 3 inch higher then it currently is to accomodate for some of what we lost in adding the 5" on the other side of the divider.

    Given that information, what do you do when say 800' of 5" comes up short? I have a naysayer working behind the scenes to undermine our efforts and this is the basis of his argument. Keep in mind that initially buying more 5" is not an option...do we hold off until it is? Most of these driveways would not fit a second vehicle up them for someone to pickup where we left off. Could we lay the 5" until it runs out, drop something like a 'phantom pumper' and run the rest with 3 inch? Not an ideal setup but at least I would be getting the better flow rates for most of the run up the driveway?

    Looking for a little info an how some others out there deal with this scenario.

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    jce51cfd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    62

    Default

    Just some thoughts.

    Do you always have a second due engine responding?
    If so, could you drop the 5" at the base of the driveway and let the second due make up to your hydrant.

    OR

    Could you lay in from a hydrant and drop a manifold with dual 3" running up the driveway?

    I don't know how far your hydrants are or weather you use a tanker in the street.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    fftrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Northern, NJ
    Posts
    889

    Default

    Sorry minor detail... 98% of these long driveway homes are in non-hydrant areas so we are setting up portable pools at the base of the driveway so we are laying from the street/driveway meeting point.

    Your option 2 so far looks the best?!?

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    We have a similar situation in our town. Some of the driveways are pretty long and usually the long ones are also narrow and/or unpaved.
    What we did is work with the resident and measured from the house BACK up the driveway. Since all our engines have a minimum of 1000 feet of 5", we'd put a sign/post/marker at that point if it came up short of the road. We also made appropriate note in our mapbooks.

    If there's ever a fire at one of those locations, the first-due Engine will know that the driveway is too long from the notation in the mapbook, find the marker while driving in, and lay in from there. The next due engine must lay in from the hydrant to the marker and supply the first Engine.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    footville wi USA
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Voyager9s way is what we use and it works well

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9
    We have a similar situation in our town. Some of the driveways are pretty long and usually the long ones are also narrow and/or unpaved.
    What we did is work with the resident and measured from the house BACK up the driveway. Since all our engines have a minimum of 1000 feet of 5", we'd put a sign/post/marker at that point if it came up short of the road. We also made appropriate note in our mapbooks.

    If there's ever a fire at one of those locations, the first-due Engine will know that the driveway is too long from the notation in the mapbook, find the marker while driving in, and lay in from there. The next due engine must lay in from the hydrant to the marker and supply the first Engine.
    now isnt this a good idea of usin your pumkin'?
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bear DE
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Not being a rural boy I must ask a question about the use of 5" hose in such long lays without an established "constant" water supply.

    Understanding you are using porta-pools to supply the 1000' or so stretch, can you (your dept) maintain an adequate water supply for an extended period of time or do you give what you can until the pools empty and are refilled? I guess what I am asking is more along the lines of how efficient is the tanker shuttle operation with regards to keeping the pools filled?

    When we bought our 5" hose many moons ago we were taught by our sales rep an easy equation to remember... "one foot of 5" hose is equal to roughly one gallon of water"

    Again, not being from a rural dept. I have assisted neighboring companies which are rural so I am not too out of touch with tanker shuttle ops. What I have observed was unless you have a fleet of tankers and egines going in a big circle you will run out of the wet stuff very quickly. It seemed this was more frequent with the operations using 5" hose as opposed to 3" or even 4" hose.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    fftrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Northern, NJ
    Posts
    889

    Default

    Understanding you are using porta-pools to supply the 1000' or so stretch, can you (your dept) maintain an adequate water supply for an extended period of time or do you give what you can until the pools empty and are refilled? I guess what I am asking is more along the lines of how efficient is the tanker shuttle operation with regards to keeping the pools filled?
    Based on the simple fact that for 80% of our own town and in some cases 100% of neighboring towns, we have the tanker shuttle operation pretty much down to a science. We have predefined tanker assignments(1st due and second due task forces). Ask for your first due task force and you get 4 tankers and a fill engine in addition to the tanker of our own already on scene. Our goal is a rotation of 1 being filled, 1 going to get filled, 1 coming to dump, 1 waiting to dump and 1 finishing up dumping. Obviously sh%t happens and your fill site(s) can go down, etc but then again mains can break in a hydrant system as well, you just find a way to work around it.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bear DE
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Understood.

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2

    Default

    The long driveway marker system works best. Especially if you have 1800 feet of 5 on the ground. You drop at the 1500 foot marker, (leave a buffer) and the next engine lays into that from you portable tank location. that way if you have any big elevation change the engine can then go inline to incress pressure.

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    111

    Default

    We have a very similar situation in a very affluent area. My first question is, why even bother w/3" hose...friction loss baby!!! What we do is have a "long lay" dispatch, that is anything over 1000'. In these situation we have a hose tender w/2600' of 5" in the bed, nothing else besides crosslays. The hose tender is always our oldest pumper and we have had at times raised the sides to get it all in. The attack unit pulls in the hose tender backs in, drops tail and then pumps it back (always pumps it back). It works!!

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Asheville, North Carolina, United States of America
    Posts
    126

    Exclamation Pre planning

    Preplanning is the key as stated by several already!! Good preplans and record keeping with the information available readily to responding crews! As for 5" supply without a water system, I feel it is still better than 3" on relay pumping operations. Lots of people use the arguement that you have to use the first in tanker/tender to just fill up the line on long lays of 5", which is true, BUT hopefully in this day of automatic aid and mutual response, additional tankers/tenders are close at hand. Once the supply flow is established it is a lot easier to supply large volumes of water through 5" than through 3". On long 3" lays you will NEVER be able to supply the capacity of the attack pumper and will sorely tax the pumping ability of the relay pumper to the max. With 5" you can easily supply 1,000 gallons + per minute with minimual effort of the relay pumper (just do a little math on your friction losses). Once again the key is preplanning! You MUST know your fire flows for your larger remote structures, and have adequate mutual aid water supply rolling to you. Just my opinion!
    Pray for the dead, fight like hell for the living! - Mother Jones

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Penny Lane
    Posts
    390

    Default

    Buy a 5" Stortz X 2 1/2" male adaptor and leave the dual beds of 5" and 3" connected to eachother. You never need to worry about coming up short because the 3" will automatically come out after the 5" bed is empty.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    krg1401's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzfireSolo
    Buy a 5" Stortz X 2 1/2" male adaptor and leave the dual beds of 5" and 3" connected to eachother. You never need to worry about coming up short because the 3" will automatically come out after the 5" bed is empty.
    I was thinking the same thing. We have a few driveways like that described, but are too narrow for apparatus once the line hits the ground. We have the 5" Stortz X 2 1/2" adapter ready on the end of the five inch, just not preconnected. Good idea though!
    IACOJ

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Front bumper hose lays
    By taskforce16 in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 03-04-2007, 05:49 PM
  2. Midship pump and cross lays
    By bfddan in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-05-2006, 10:00 AM
  3. Alley Lays
    By Lt25206MFD in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-20-2002, 01:32 PM
  4. Hose Lays On Aerials
    By FVFD852 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-23-2002, 02:49 PM
  5. High rise pack lays
    By Eng 48 in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-11-2000, 03:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register