1. #1
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    Default Heads Up Sports Fans

    To make sure everyone is actually paying attention, the application changed again. Under Department Characteristics Part II make sure to note at the bottom 1/3:

    How many vehicles does your organization have in each of the types or classs of vehicle listed below? You must include vehicles that are leased or on long-term loan as well as any vehicles that have been ordered or otherwise currently under contract for purchase or lease by your organization but not yet in your possession.
    This includes Forestry Department vehicles on loan, vehicles that were purchased by your county for use by your independent department, or vehicles bought by a relief association. Any truck whose purpose is to provide fire protection in the area you serve gets listed.

    Avoid the orange jumpsuits and read everything carefully.

    Good luck, and Happy Granting. - Brian

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    And another question on the Fire Department application:

    If you answered volunteer or combination or paid oncall, how many of your volunteer Firefighters are paid members from another career department?
    Interesting metric to ask for...

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    Wonder why they want to know that?

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    Originally the AFG for 2006 was going to have the rule that if your municipality took the position of not allowing your career firefighters to volunteer in their own communities then you would be excluded from applying. Since in most cases where there is contention over this, it's because of IAFF rules not an official declaration from the municipality and since you can't regulate a private labor unions rules since they aren't the ones receiving the money it was dropped. But they can regulate the cities/towns that do this since they would be receiving federal monies, so it may pop back up again for 2007.

    Personally I think there are other things to worry about first like putting more money in the program than issues like this.

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    Another seperation for this section is the seperation of Tanker/Tenders (1250 Gal +) from the pumpers. Last years application had them all grouped together.

    Which leads me to another question but to avoid a hijack - I'll open my own thread.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
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    Yep, now Pumper/Tanker is in with Pumpers, Tankers are anything with not enough of a pump to be a pumper/tanker (small ptos and the like).

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    O.K. - how would this one play out.

    The Rescue Squad (EMS Agency) has a Rescue that they house at our station because
    1) they don't have room for it
    2) they can't staff it & an Ambulance due to lack of personnel

    We also use the truck as a Light & Utility on fire calls.

    Some of our membership are also members of that agency. We are separate in all respects (including budget) with the exception of this one truck in our station.

    The vehicle is titled to the county and according to them is "on loan" or assigned to the Rescue Squad and not us.

    Do I still have to claim it in the AFG ?
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
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    We also use the truck as a Light & Utility on fire calls.
    Since the FD uses it, plus it being in your station, you have to put it down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    Tankers are anything with not enough of a pump to be a pumper/tanker (small ptos and the like).
    So if you add a 1000 gpm PTO pump to it, it then makes it a pumper/tanker correct? Is that better or worse? It shows that you are more versatile and can pump with it if need be, but if you have a newer pumper (say a 2000) is that going to hurt you? Would you be better to drop the bigger PTO pump and go with a 750 to keep from classifying it as a pumper/tanker since your pumper is newer and you are wanting to replace your tanker which doesn't currently have a pump?

    I think I already know the answer to this one, but I don't understand the answer. Just looking for some clarity for my mind.

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    1000gpm classifies it as an NFPA pumper-tanker, but 750 will be read just the same by most people. So I'd say it doesn't make a difference, if you're not competitive for the tanker in the first place it won't matter, and if you are, it won't matter then either.

    I say all tankers should have some kind of pump on them for refilling if manpower and trucks will be short. The difference in design would be if you are designing it to have both ATTACK pumper features and tanker features. Meaning 4 man cab, 4 crosslays, foam, etc, etc. If it's just 2 man cab and described as primarily a tanker and a 2nd pumper if the other one if tied up on a car fire, then the newer pumper won't make a difference. If it is spec'd as an attack piece, then you had better be competitive for having 2 pumper with call volume and risks.

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    It's described just as a mobile water supply. Didn't make any comment about using it as a pumper in either case. Should we be specific that we are adding the pump for drafting reasons and in case the first out is tied up. The idea is to have a tanker that is agile and quick on it's feet. Not a 4 man cab or custom cab engine with a bigger tank. So should I mention that it will only be a two man cab because I haven't said anything about that as of yet? We originally were just going to go with a 500 - 750 gpm PTO pump just to have a pump but bumped it up to make it more versatile. Should that not have been the case? So in the drop down list which should I select then? Just tanker correct? Not pumper tanker? If I only select Tanker then and they read that it has this 1000 gpm pump on it are they going to think that I'm trying to sneak in a pumper/tanker?

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    I don't see anyone following along that closely. Either way pumper-tanker has to meet NFPA 1901 for Mobile Water Supply and Pumper, so if it doesn't, then it's just one or the other in the drop down list. 2 man cab and lack of ladders and other stuff makes it just a tanker.

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    Got it...makes sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    2 man cab and lack of ladders and other stuff makes it just a tanker.
    Thanks Brian - now I'm more confused than ever.
    c'mon over to my thread Another AFG '06 "What are our odds" question so I don't hijack this one so much.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not2L84U2
    So if you add a 1000 gpm PTO pump to it, it then makes it a pumper/tanker correct? Is that better or worse? It shows that you are more versatile and can pump with it if need be, but if you have a newer pumper (say a 2000) is that going to hurt you? Would you be better to drop the bigger PTO pump and go with a 750 to keep from classifying it as a pumper/tanker since your pumper is newer and you are wanting to replace your tanker which doesn't currently have a pump?
    ....
    More or less the same question as I have. For our rural dept. application the tanker is the 2nd of our 2 trucks. Is a supply pumper. As planned, shows up at the fire with 3500gal, sets up portatanks on the roadway, and pumps thru LDH laid up the farm driveway to our 1985 1500gal 2man commercial cab "attack" pumper (up to 1500ft). Mutual aide pumpers proceed to the fire and this supply pumper also supplies the with water. We want a real pump (1500+gpm) not a 1965 toy that will not do what is required. Load to ISO/NFPA so can "attack" if required (is a pumper tanker). crewcab prefered so we have sets.

    So is this AFG pumper or a tanker in 2006?

    Will buying a used unit for $85000 vs than $200000 for new increase our odds of success? Or (same question as 05) is the hurdle just to qualify/cost details only have to be reasonable for what you want? (IE you qualify for grant we don't care if you buy used or new as long as price is within customary parameters)?

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    I hit that one in the other thread Roger. If it meets NFPA 1901 for Pumper and Mobile Water Supply, then it's a pumper tanker. If it doesn't then it's one or the other.

    Pumper needs hose, compartmentation, ladders, etc, etc. If it ain't got that, but it's got a load of water on it, a pumper it isn't.

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