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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Truck Clari-freaking-cation

    Found this while punching in an application that should end our speculation (mine included) about what to call those big things on wheels:

    Vehicle Activity

    The following is a list of items that are eligible for funding in the Vehicle Activity. All equipment that is funded in this activity must comply with applicable NFPA, OSHA, NIOSH, Coast Guard, or ANSI Standards.

    Engine: (Pumper, Motor, Pump, Appliance, Machine, Wagon, Rescue-Pumper, Hose Wagon, and Foam-Pumper) an apparatus equipped with a fire pump of at least 750 gpm capacity, water tank not to exceed 1,250 gallons, and a compliment of hose. The apparatus must be manufactured and equipped in accordance with NFPA Standard 1901. Variations include:
    Rescue Engine
    Pumper Tanker
    Foam Pumper
    CAFS Pumper
    Type I-VI
    Quint w/ladder < 76 feet

    Brush Truck: (Grass Truck or Rig, Patrol, Attack, Mini-Pumper, Quick Attack, Booster, CAFS etc.) a small apparatus primarily designed for fighting wild land fires and is often equipped with four-wheel drive to improve its off-road capabilities. The vehicle must be manufactured and equipped to comply with NFPA 1906.

    Tanker: (Tender, Pumper-Tanker, Tanker-Pumper) a vehicle designed to transport large quantities of water to fires in areas without an adequate and reliable public water system. Tank sizes are normally 1,250 gallons and the vehicle must be manufactured and equipped in accordance with NFPA Standard 1901. The vehicle may or may not be equipped with a fire pump. Variations include:
    Tanker Pumper
    Foam Tanker

    Aerial: (Ladder, Truck, Platform, Snorkel, Articulating Platform, Telescoping Platform, Hook & Ladder, Quint) a piece of fire apparatus equipped with a ladder or other mechanical extension and is used to access heights in order to perform rescue and firefighting functions. The apparatus must be manufactured and equipped in accordance with the provisions of NFPA 1901. Variations include:
    Telescoping
    Articulating
    Platform
    Quint w/ladder > 76 feet

    Rescue/Squad: (Rescue; variations include Light, Medium, Heavy) a piece of apparatus that is designed to carry specialized equipment to perform non-routine, technical rescues to include, but not be limited to, vehicle extrication, building collapse, trench or below grade, water, high angle, confined space, etc. Variations include:
    Light, Medium, and Heavy
    Technical Rescue Units
    Boats

    EMS and Other
    Other: A specialized vehicle that includes:
    Ambulances
    Air/Light Units
    Rehab Units
    Haz-Mat/Bomb Units
    Technical Support
    Fire Boats
    Foam Tender
    Hose Tender
    Salvage Truck

    Ambulance: a vehicle that is licensed and equipped to treat and transport the sick and injured to a medical facility.

    The following is a list of items that might be ineligible for funding in the Vehicle Activity.
    Ineligible Vehicles
    Bull Dozers
    Aircraft


    Dang, I was gonna go for one of them big old CAT Dozers. Works better than a Q for moving traffic.


  2. #2
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    I just confirmed the same with our Fire Program Specialist (Workshop Instructor). She indiciated the change this year to move the pumper/tanker out of the tanker classification.

  3. #3
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    Depends, according to this there are two classifications of pumper-tanker.

    1) Pumper Category: 750+ gpm pump, 1250 gallon or smaller tank

    2) Tanker Category: 1250 gallon or larger tank, no pump or any size pump.

    So a truck that actually meets NFPA 1901 for Mobile Water Supply and Pumper goes in the category based on water tank size, not our previous speculation about it meeting the Pumper specs. Details. Always Details.

  4. #4
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    Depends, according to this there are two classifications of pumper-tanker.

    1) Pumper Category: 750+ gpm pump, 1250 gallon or smaller tank

    2) Tanker Category: 1250 gallon or larger tank, no pump or any size pump.

    So a truck that actually meets NFPA 1901 for Mobile Water Supply and Pumper goes in the category based on water tank size, not our previous speculation about it meeting the Pumper specs. Details. Always Details.
    Hmmm.

    Engine 1 = 750gpm / 1500water
    Engine 2 = 1250gpm / 1500water
    Engine 3 = 750gpm / 1250water
    Engine 4 = 1250gpm / 1500water
    Tanker 1 = 1500 water
    Tanker 2 = 1500 water

    Now my question is, would they look at the role of the apparatus we have? Our "Engines" to them, are actually tankers by what you've posted, with the exception of Engine 3. Engine 3 is on the chopping block to go out of service. So does that leave us without an "engine" and just "Tankers" to them?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
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    Based on what they say to put where, then yes.

    But at the bottom of the page it asks for pump and tank size, so they will see on each truck that you don't just have a bunch of water and no way to push it around.

  6. #6
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    Question

    Brian, Where does this truck fit in?

    1980 Tanker? 1225 gallon tank with 300 gpm PTO pump. Does have a 12 inch dump on the back and is used as a tanker.

    It doesn't fit in either category... Pumper or Tanker????

  7. #7
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    I guess it's time they make a new catergory, how about a "Pumker".

    No matter how you want to slice and dice it or split hairs; it's a tanker.

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    I agree... Maybe it will help prove my need for a new tanker since this doesn't fit in any of the categories. We'll see...

  9. #9
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    Upnorth, it's a tanker:

    Tanker: (Tender, Pumper-Tanker, Tanker-Pumper) a vehicle designed to transport large quantities of water to fires in areas without an adequate and reliable public water system. Tank sizes are normally 1,250 gallons and the vehicle must be manufactured and equipped in accordance with NFPA Standard 1901. The vehicle may or may not be equipped with a fire pump.

    NFPA 1901 says tanker at 1000gallons, and with DHS, anything with a pump smaller than 750gpm, but water more than 1000 gallons is a tanker. So a 750gpm/1200 gal truck is a pumper according to DHS. At 1250 it becomes a tanker according to what they say. And since it's their game we have to play right in their sandbox.

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    any idea if a mini pumper would be a high priority?

    going to add something else to this as well

    if we are looking into a ladder truck which we have never had before which would mean no one is currently trained to operate it we would have to or could figure in bringing someone in to teach the appropriate courses correct?
    Last edited by Firefighter2230; 03-14-2006 at 10:45 PM.

  11. #11
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    It depends on your classification. It's in with Quick Attack & Brush in Rural & Suburban. #2 in the Rural list, #5 in Suburban.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    It depends on your classification. It's in with Quick Attack & Brush in Rural & Suburban. #2 in the Rural list, #5 in Suburban.
    Which is to say, not too likely.

    But I got a used one I'll sell ya!
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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  13. #13
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    Well they're all Priority 1, but within each square they're listed in order of importance within the classification. So pumpers are P1#1 in Rural, Brush/Attack P1#2, Tankers P1#3, 75' quints P1#4. Same idea with the other squares.

    And if you're handing out I have an open spot in my garage. Although I'd be sleeping in it if I had it clean enough to park a fire truck but not the wife's car.

  14. #14
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    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I thought that sounded out of whack.

    No, we're not giving it away, but we'd sure love to sell it.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I thought that sounded out of whack.

    No, we're not giving it away, but we'd sure love to sell it.
    looking to get rid of the mini pumper due to age, did it just not work well for your department or was it one of those things the department wishes they had never purchased?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I thought that sounded out of whack.

    No, we're not giving it away, but we'd sure love to sell it.
    looking to get rid of the mini pumper due to age, did it just not work well for your department or was it one of those things the department wishes they had never purchased?

    Also Brian what about this:
    if we are looking into a ladder truck which we have never had before which would mean no one is currently trained to operate it we would have to or could figure in bringing someone in to teach the appropriate courses correct?

  17. #17
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    2230--

    1. DHS has been very explicit this year. If you don't already have a driver/operator program in place, you had better ask for one with the grant or YOU WILL NOT BE FUNDED.


    2. As for the mini, it did great when we used it as a fire truck years ago. Now we do rescue with it and have sprayed water from it a grand total of three times in ten years. The pump & tank use up too much space and water, and we're working on an out-and-out rescue truck to replace it. It is a good truck; if we can't sell it, we may try to keep it, but we could use the money toward the new rig and we don't have anywhere to keep it right now.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighter2230
    if we are looking into a ladder truck which we have never had before
    PROGRAM GUIDANCE
    The lowest priority is funding equipment to increase an applicant’s available supply (reserve equipment) or to expand an applicant’s services into new mission areas; therefore, those applications will receive the lowest competitive rating along with applications seeking reserve equipment.
    This is mentioned 3 other times in the Program Guidance, one of those times being in the vehicle section.

    If this new ladder truck is a new mission then you must realize before you apply that this is going to be a low priority item.
    Last edited by Not2L84U2; 03-15-2006 at 11:07 AM.

  19. #19
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    What he said about the driver/operator class. With aerials it is a must, especially if you've never had one. So would Truck Company ops, coming from a guy that started out on truck and dealing with a department that just bought their first down here it is a whole new ball game. Without the training it's an expensive toy that will never be used to its full potential.

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    Not necessarily on the new mission. As urban sprawl continues into the suburbs and rural areas, growth is dictating the need for aerials in places not needing them before. That's the reason that 75' quints are a P1 in rural. Enough growth for a truck, not enough growth for the big honker.

    And any truckie will tell you that a good ladder company is essential for basic fire operations, which defintiely is not a new mission. It's not just about the long thing on top of the truck. That doesn't mean you have a great chance at it. All aerials worth the money cost more than $300K and at $300K it's a 1 in 92 chance of being awarded. Over $700K it is a 1 in 1000 shot.

    New mission would be tech rescue or hazmat training & equipment where none existed before.

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