1. #1
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    Default Searching with a Water Can

    Quick Question!

    You're assigned to the truck and your tools for the day are the 6' hook and the water can. While performing a search is it permissible to lay these items down at the door of the room being searched? It seems quite cumbersome to hold on to both of these items and also perform a rapid search of the room, especially the can. How do you normally deal with this situation?

    Thanks for the help!
    New2DTruck

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    In my department, there would be 2 guys entering the room with 1 left outside. The can (if no fire is showing in the room) would be left in the hall with the officer.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Yep, just like Bones said. Can at the doorway unless you have fire in there.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Default Can position

    When I have the can for the tour and when I have the luck of going to work I always take the can and hook with me. Upon entering the apt. the both the can and hook come with me. Usually grasp the hook and can strap in the same hand; holding the hook by the head. Many of the apts. in my area are cluttered with mountains of crap making it extremely difficult to maneuver even under no fire conditions. Sometimes if it gets real cluttered I'll stand the hook up so that it is not dragging behind me getting caught up. Sometimes you can also put the can right between your knees if you are crawling and conditions permit this, therefire giving you another free hand. If I get to a bedroom that needs a quick search I may just drop the hook and the can right at the door allowing me to get my body across the top of the bed and most likely to a wall. Many of the bedrooms are so small and cluttered that it is very difficult to do a left/right hand search, there may only be a little walk way through the room. Once a quick search is made just go right back to where you left your can and hook, then on to the next room. Basically take your tools where ever you go, the can may play a vital role in holding back fire long enough to get the apt searched and possibly for your rapid exit if need be!

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    Quote Originally Posted by New2DTruck
    Quick Question!

    You're assigned to the truck and your tools for the day are the 6' hook and the water can. While performing a search is it permissible to lay these items down at the door of the room being searched? It seems quite cumbersome to hold on to both of these items and also perform a rapid search of the room, especially the can. How do you normally deal with this situation?

    Thanks for the help!
    New2DTruck
    On the occasion where I'm working in the Truck...I've occasionally left the hook outside in the Hallway...but always take the can...that is what you can use to hold off the fire or even knock down a small kitchen fire. If the officer calls for the can and you have to go get it...I'm sure there will be words after the job. The hook most times is used in overhaul. If it isn't too cluttered one could bring it as well as described above.

    FTM-PTB

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    As with the above......if the line is right behind us I hang the hook in the jab of the door to chock it open. If the line isn't in place yet, I put it to the side of the door that I just can in.....but out of the way so it doesn't interfer with the door opening....but close enough that I can find it as a reference point if I got to get out fast............but I always take the can with me.

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    The can man at at a job really should'nt be searching anyway (except for the location of the fire) His job is to contain it to the room or area of orgin (or put it out if possible) Containing it may include driving it back into the room and using the hook to close the fire room door. He should then remain at the door to continue monitoring/controlling it, while the rest of the inside team searches. If he runs out of water and the fire is extending from the room, he must notify the other members searching as to the deteriorating conditions. When a line is in place, he can then go assist in the search. So his tools are needed and should be at his side, at least until the fire is knocked down. The can (especially if water is left in it) makes a great tool for taking windows (base of can through the glass) so I like to keep it with me, the whole job.
    Last edited by MattyJ; 03-13-2006 at 12:55 PM.

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    If your dropping one tool at the door, let it be the hook. Like has be mentioned before, the hook is more or less a tool used during overhaul and as such isnt really needing right away. You can vent with the can so no need for the hook there. But, most important thing for a new truck guy to remember is this

    Without a tool, you are nothing...
    Without you, your tool is nothing...

    Dont get caught without a tool or two and if your going thru a door way or making a turn down a hallway, grab a bite of line and help your brothers out.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PFDTruck18
    If your dropping one tool at the door, let it be the hook. Like has be mentioned before, the hook is more or less a tool used during overhaul and as such isnt really needing right away. You can vent with the can so no need for the hook there. But, most important thing for a new truck guy to remember is this

    Without a tool, you are nothing...
    Without you, your tool is nothing...

    Dont get caught without a tool or two and if your going thru a door way or making a turn down a hallway, grab a bite of line and help your brothers out.

    I have to disagree.....the hook is needed to reach into the fire room and pull either a victim out or the door closed...have it with you.

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    Default Can or Hook?

    If I was new to the truck, I'd ask the Officer. He's the one who's gonna make my life hell if I get the wrong tool.
    IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ
    I have to disagree.....the hook is needed to reach into the fire room and pull either a victim out or the door closed...have it with you.
    I should have noted earlier that when I have left the hook it was in SROs or small studio appartments. Most appartments one should have no problem dragging the hook along with you. I agree with Matty...you never know what you will need it for.

    FTM-PTB

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    To be all honest, our search guys dont carry a hook, they carry a halligan and a camara. A tool that can easily slide in your belt. We have no SOP for carrying a can and I really only carry one when Im searching a highrise. The remainder of my local is atmost 4 stories but usually 2 or 3 story rows. Not much need for a can on the 2nd floor. I could have used one a few times on the 3rd floor but habit had me without it. Unlike some others that cant seem to get it thru their heads that others may know alittle more about certain situations (high rise and 1 3/4), I will concede the fact that we dont have ANY 6 or 7 story walk ups in my local which would place the search guy well ahead of any waterline and thus the need for the can.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    One side note
    A pressurized water can makes search SO SO much easier then a pump can.
    "Train as if your life depends on it"
    Always Remember *343*

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    Yeah, what kind of cans are you guys using? Ours are 5 gallon, top fill, hand pumps. Way too big and clumsy to crawl around with. I take it everyones are smaller?
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Yeah, what kind of cans are you guys using? Ours are 5 gallon, top fill, hand pumps. Way too big and clumsy to crawl around with. I take it everyones are smaller?
    2 1/2 Gallon pressurized water can. Same extinguisher you can find on the wall of your nearest K-mart.



    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    2 1/2 Gallon pressurized water can. Same extinguisher you can find on the wall of your nearest K-mart.



    FTM-PTB
    Nice going.

    When someone posts "ANOTHER Black Eye for Us" thread detailing how FF's got locked up for stealing cans from the K Mart, you have only yourself to blame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Nice going.

    When someone posts "ANOTHER Black Eye for Us" thread detailing how FF's got locked up for stealing cans from the K Mart, you have only yourself to blame.
    You are very right George.

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    We use the 2 1/2 gal can above as well. 3 man interior search team: officer (with TIC who stays in hallway and monitors conditions/radio), can man (has hook and can - may leave can at door to room (with officer) they are searching if no fire visible in room), irons man (married hal/axe).

    Officer scans room quickly with TIC for anything obvious, then sends the other 2 in to search. He stays in hall to monitor what's going on and check for fire spread.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Excellent thread and very interesting to see everyoneís tactics and reactions to them. Hereís my 1-3/4 cents.

    Can stays just inside of the fire apartment door if Iím performing the search in the living area (living room, kitchen, dining area, etc). Unless, Iím met with fire or extreme heat conditions upon entry into the apartment and will require use of the can to hold back or extinguish the fire.

    The hook always stays with me it allows me to expedite my search of living areas where, normally the sq footage is far greater than the sleeping areaís. The 6ft hook allows me to outstretch from the walls across the room therefore covering/sweeping a greater area. The hook follows the wall and allows me to outstretch 10 to 12 feet out from the wall or furniture as I circle the room moving back and forth along the shaft. In some cases you can sweep the entire width of a room. This is especially useful when operating with limited manpower and under deteriorating conditions where time is limited and a very rapid primary must be performed. Also, a good tool for venting as you search when conditions are appropriate.

    Sleeping areaís. Can stays just inside of the bedroom door (no fire showing) possibly holding it open and hook can be used as a reference point from the doorway. If itís a larger than normal bedroom see above tactic.

    As weíre all aware, itís the early stages of operations where youíre most likely to locate and remove save-able persons. Itís also the time that your resources/manpower are lacking and you may not have the ability to have a FF stage at the apartment and/or bedroom door even though this is an excellent tactic. Both members split up Ė one searching the living area the other the hallway and bedrooms.

    Tactics & Manpower deployment can differ when confronted with Flats/RR style apartments and larger (+sq footage) single-family homes.

    JMOP

    Stay Safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    2 1/2 Gallon pressurized water can. Same extinguisher you can find on the wall of your nearest K-mart.



    FTM-PTB
    Thats gotta be alot lighter and easier. Where did you say I can steal one? K-Mart?
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Thats gotta be alot lighter and easier. Where did you say I can steal one? K-Mart?
    lol any nice store should have them.

    I personally am not a fan of pump cans for the reason of lossing half the damn water when crawling around. And a 5 gal can is freggin huge hell thats about 42.5 lb just in water
    "Train as if your life depends on it"
    Always Remember *343*

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    Pardon my ignorance...but how are you going to check for hotspots in a window frame with a pike pole?

    Yes, pike poles should be "one" of the tools brought in, me personally, I'd rather bring in a pick head axe or a halligan bar w/ the water can.

    I guess I've just haven't been in a situation where I wish I would have brought the pike instead, YET! I'm sure now that I posted this, I'll bring the pick head and wish I had the pike.

    I guess the simple solution is just make sure somebody off the truck is grabbing the pike.

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    we are talking about searching with a hook and a can.


    If you have a NY roofmans hook you can overhaul a window without a problem.
    "Train as if your life depends on it"
    Always Remember *343*

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    Quote Originally Posted by The1andOnly
    Pardon my ignorance...but how are you going to check for hotspots in a window frame with a pike pole?

    Yes, pike poles should be "one" of the tools brought in, me personally, I'd rather bring in a pick head axe or a halligan bar w/ the water can.
    Hey, whatever works for you. If my concern is a smoldering window frame the primaryís must have been completed and weíre now checking for extension (not as rapid a pace). Hopefully, weíve got a line in place or somewhere in the vicinity of the apartment or rooms Iím opening up in. Personally, Iíd be concerned about whatís behind the sheetrock, plaster or other type of wall covering causing that window frame to smolder. Iíve opened up my share of walls and removed a bit of molding and framing over the years with a hook (not a pick head axe) and will continue to do so because itís worked quite well for me.

    You take your pick head axe and Iíll take my hook and leave it at whatever works for you. I do take the pick head axe to the roof of PDís on those rare occasions that it needs to be opened up. Do I get any points for that?

    If itís the window frame itself smoldering/on fire, Iíll just give it a hit with MY CAN.

    Stay Safe
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    Yikes!!!!! We could have done without THAT!!!!!
    Stupid People.......Providing Job Security to Public Safety Professionals for ........forever

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