Home town says no more career hiring!!

[grimreap99]

What I thought was some hope has ended in disgust. Fire chief went to bat for 46 career guys over five years to handle grown from large town to small city. Local government and mayor shot it down beacause he said it wasn't in budget. He said it would cost 5.6% property tax increase which they won't do. Thing is that house costs have increased dramatically in two years which means bigger taxes anyways. He thinks we can handle this with more volunteers as our city grows bigger and bigger. We wanted to increase our present 2 career stations to 3 and he said no. What comes even worse is that they have a new policy stating no interior attack without at least 3 rigs on scene. So my previous commments about volunteers doesn't even matter. Now my house burns down while the one rig from the career station takes ten minutes and they wait another five before the volunteer guys show up. Imagine the spread in 15 minutes. House is gone!!! Why can't the volunteers just stop busting the union and get on side. Take a stand, refuse to attend, band together, quit. Then the city would have to hire more career guys. Anybody else live in a community with both, and the city laughing at all the money they save because of volunteer scabs.

[BLSboy]

E229Lt, i have to use your line here

http://www.xbo85.dial.pipex.com/wavs/rumble.wav


THIS is gonna get ugly

I am a Volly, and don't appreciate this

[Golzy12]

WOW.... Grimreap, I've read 2 of your posts, this one and the post in the "is anyone else not impressed with the young firefighters" thread and I can safely say that im not impressed with those postings.

Just my .02

[BLSboy]

Hey Golzy...This guy is showing that he is a Mutt...so FTM-PTB...I dont cre WHO you are, POC, Full time, Volly, Half paid, kinda paid, not paid, well paid, etc....we are all he to put fires out....not fight with each other.....instead of starting ***** with everybody, why not offer up some of you nuggets of info?

[JHR1985]

I didnt care much for his young FF post. But he does have a point. At no point should a city that has Career FF depend on volunteers to bail it out money wise. Vollies do a good service for small departments. But, when departments get to the size of 3-4 stations, vollies need to be a thing of the past. Your typically looking at the size of a population of around 50,000. While I believe that vollies can assist, I fully disagree that vollies should hold a department from growing in size

[Golzy12]

His volly bashing drew the attention away from the main point of his post.

[BLSboy]

JHR, I agree that there should be more Paid FFs hired, but the volunteers CAN supplement those there, and be helpful. As Golzy said, the anti volly bashing is what deters from his message.

[hwoods]

Vollies do a good service for small departments. But, when departments get to the size of 3-4 stations, vollies need to be a thing of the past. Your typically looking at the size of a population of around 50,000.

Do you remotely have a clue what you're talking about?? What do you mean by the above statement?? Show us some Factual proof for this comment, please.

[Golzy12]

I didnt care much for his young FF post. But he does have a point. At no point should a city that has Career FF depend on volunteers to bail it out money wise. Vollies do a good service for small departments. But, when departments get to the size of 3-4 stations, vollies need to be a thing of the past. Your typically looking at the size of a population of around 50,000. While I believe that vollies can assist, I fully disagree that vollies should hold a department from growing in size

Bloomington, Minnesota (thats where the mall f america is.), all volunteer fire department serving a population of roughly 85,000. 150 members, 6 stations ISO class 3.

Bloomington runs just fine. Do you wonder why Minnesota only has a small number of full time department (around 7) well bloomington can be blamed for that, along with Eagan, Eden Prairie, Etc...

[JHR1985]

more power to them up North. If they can work up there, great. Down around the south, try to find me a city of 30,000 that doesnt have paid guys. But that is besides the point.

This is exactly what the IAFF is fighting againts. You have a city that is more than capable of hiring career guys but they are going to depend on vollies to continue protecting the city. Rather than have the city's protection increase and cut down run times, the vollies are helping to increase the run times. And there is no point in me even trying to talk about how minutes count in the event on a fire. So, yes, I agree somewhat with his postings. But, the comment on asking the vollies just to stop what there doing what way off the mark. Until then, he needs to accept that he will be working with them

[grimreap99]

You don't like my old timer post, too bad. No new guy has the right to tell an old guy they are smarter because of some books. Experience kicks but on books any day. Secondly, when you volunteer somewhere with say 200,000 people you are helping the city scab. You aren't helping out, you are stopping someone from getting a career job, maybe yourself. Just because three houses burn down and not seven is not a good save. Bottom line, volunteers means bigger response and less knowledge which means bigger fire, end of story.

[Golzy12]

Bottom line, volunteers means bigger response and less knowledge which means bigger fire, end of story.

I didn't know career guys got more training then the vollys, I know a couple full time departments that require less training then my volly department does.

[FyredUp]

What I thought was some hope has ended in disgust. Fire chief went to bat for 46 career guys over five years to handle grown from large town to small city. Local government and mayor shot it down beacause he said it wasn't in budget. He said it would cost 5.6% property tax increase which they won't do. Thing is that house costs have increased dramatically in two years which means bigger taxes anyways. He thinks we can handle this with more volunteers as our city grows bigger and bigger. We wanted to increase our present 2 career stations to 3 and he said no. What comes even worse is that they have a new policy stating no interior attack without at least 3 rigs on scene. So my previous commments about volunteers doesn't even matter. Now my house burns down while the one rig from the career station takes ten minutes and they wait another five before the volunteer guys show up. Imagine the spread in 15 minutes. House is gone!!! Why can't the volunteers just stop busting the union and get on side. Take a stand, refuse to attend, band together, quit. Then the city would have to hire more career guys. Anybody else live in a community with both, and the city laughing at all the money they save because of volunteer scabs.

MOVE TO WHERE YOU GET THE LEVEL OF FIRE PROTECTION YOU WANT OR HELP THE LOCAL FD IMPROVE. If you don't do either of those things you are nothing more than a whiny pot stirrer who sits on the sidelines and does NOTHING because it is easier.

Golly, I didn't realize that any municipalities job was to create career fire fighter positions. I thought it's job was to provide services at a level that the community demands at a rate that they can afford. I am a career FF in a city of roughly 50K people and we are there because the need for us has been proven by run numbers and value of property in the city. I am a volly in a village of roughly 702 people and we are there because of the low run totals and because it is fiscally sound to have volunteers. We have excellent response times and our citizens love us. But then again, we are the citizens aren't we? You appear to be a resident, but not an involved citizen. there is a difference.

You don't like my old timer post, too bad. No new guy has the right to tell an old guy they are smarter because of some books. Experience kicks but on books any day. Secondly, when you volunteer somewhere with say 200,000 people you are helping the city scab. You aren't helping out, you are stopping someone from getting a career job, maybe yourself. Just because three houses burn down and not seven is not a good save. Bottom line, volunteers means bigger response and less knowledge which means bigger fire, end of story.

You are a piece of work. Get off the computer, go down to the local volly house and help them get better. If you don't want to be an active firefighter offer your "VAST 10 years of experience" to them as a training officer.

Golly, didn't your politicians say they couldn't afford to add more career staff? Are the citizens (you know the one's who vote and pay taxes and actually get involved in the community) calling for more career firefighters? Why not? Maybe if YOU think this is so important you should find out the answers to those questions. Again, please show me a city charter anywhere in the country where it says the city's mission is to create career firefighter positions. When there is enough demand from either run totals or from the citizens career firefighters will be added.

Your last sentence is so condescending that it is ridiculous beyond belief. The problem when you paint with a broad brush is you end up almost always doing a sloppy job and making a mess of yourself. My volly FD has strict requirements for training. Including in house and state classes. My volly FD also has great turnout times for calls. But then again, we are the citizens who protect our own houses.

If you are so unhappy with the services where you live, MOVE. After all you said it was the country. Do you like living in the country or when you moved there did you intend to bring the city with you?

FyredUp

[Engine32]

more power to them up North. If they can work up there, great. Down around the south, try to find me a city of 30,000 that doesnt have paid guys. But that is besides the point.

The city of Pasadena is barely under 150,000 and all volunteer. The city of Pearland has surpassed 60,000 and is also a volunteer department. League City is even bigger and still volunteer. There are ESDs with much larger populations contracted to volunteer departments.

[Greenacres2]

I didn't know career guys got more training then the vollys, I know a couple full time departments that require less training then my volly department does.

Hey Golzy--i think you have too many designations for the "reaper" to listen to you! And a student also?? There you go with that education stuff again. Oh yeah, and you can spell--you'll never reach him now!!
earl
FF1, FF2, Haz-mat Ops & Tech, IS 100,200, 232, 700, 800
CLU, ChFC (day job designations)

[grimreap99]

O.K., a few things you need to know about where I live that some appeared to not read. I work in a city with 1.5 ish million people that is about 70 miles from the town, village, they call it a city place I live. This place has about 150,000 people with a total area of say ten miles north of the city, five miles east, 15 miles south, and 5 west, all of which does not involve the core of say 25 square miles. The core has two career stations and the outer part has 5, although one is just on the tip of the city. This leaves limited protection to the rural areas. The plan was to make one of the busiest places fulltime, making it three. Rest assured I support volunteer departments, and I can see the cities point in keeping 4 stations volunteer. My problem is that even the fire chief has the same feelings about this as I do. He wants to fill the one in the residential area with fulltime making 3. City says no, too much money. Considering the growth in the city, this is a huge mistake. I am an IAFF member, and for volunteers that don't know our position it's simple. Volunteering is consider scabbing if the city already has fulltime members. I am mandated by the IAFF to not support you, nor may I join you. If a city has both volunteers and career, I may under no terms support you. However, should I have a cabin or second home, in a small town without any fulltime staff, then I am allowed to join the fire service there. The IAFF supports volunteers in areas that cannot staff fulltime, due to budget or manning. So any volunteers living in these small towns, I support you, stop posting. You guys who are helping your cities keep their budgets though are scabs. You are letting them get away with not hiring staff. Now as far as moving into the city, first off at close to $1000000 for a half decent house, yah right. Fire service is my right to bitch about, but in no way do I consider it a service to consider when choosing my home. House is new, house is insured. I will tell you one thing though, in the city we have 19 guys on scene in less than five minutes, lines off, interior attack and in most cases save the house. I have heard nothing but complete losses out here because of the staffing and conflicts between fulltime and volunteers. The career guys out here avoid the volunteers and without the mutual efforts there is no teamwork, and everything crumbles.

[grimreap99]

buddy above, technical rescue tech and hazmat instructer, BSc.in biology, and all your FF1, FF2 crap. Spellings bad, because us fulltime guys have bad nights and have trouble staying awake. Go read my post about the 21 year old kid last night in Vfib.

[firefightermfd1]

Now my house burns down while the one rig from the career station takes ten minutes.

If you ask me I think you need to be focused on the fact that you have a ten minute response time to a structure fire. Dont worry about the vollys and do your job.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Now my house burns down while the one rig from the career station takes ten minutes.

If you ask me I think you need to be focused on the fact that you have a ten minute response time to a structure fire. Dont worry about the vollys and do your job.

Not opening the proverbial Pandora's Box here, but....

Could a ten minute response time to a fire be as a result of the lack of volunteers responding in that section of the city where the volunteers are supposed to be providing coverage?

FirefighterMFD1.. maybe you should be worrying about the lack of response to your area and let the career guys do their job..., which apparently also includes covering the VFD houses.

[ChicagoFF]

Now my house burns down while the one rig from the career station takes ten minutes.

If you ask me I think you need to be focused on the fact that you have a ten minute response time to a structure fire. Dont worry about the vollys and do your job.

LOL. Is this supposed to be an argument in favor of not increasing the career staff?!? Sounds like you just made the more career guy argument! Hahahaha