1. #1
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    Default Looking for a word that begins with M...

    And is not Mass...

    Holland is a small town.

    Because where else would the grounds to fire (well, not re-appoint) the fire chief be...he bought ice melt:

    Friday, March 17, 2006
    Holland firefighters are united in bid to get chief reappointed

    By Patty Lawrence-Perry CORRESPONDENT


    We’re here to support our chief and we’d like you gentlemen to appoint him.

    John Cozens,
    DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF


    HOLLAND— A roomful of firefighters delivered a petition to selectmen this week in support of Fire Chief Paul H. Foster, after board members said his management skills led them to decide not to reappoint him.

    The board had written to Chief Foster last June to give him a year’s notice of its decision not to reappoint him when his term expires this June.

    The petition, signed by the entire Fire Department as well as several retired and former firefighters, stated: “We feel it would be a terrible mistake for you, the selectmen, to not reappoint Paul H. Foster as the Chief of the Holland Fire/Rescue Department.”


    Deputy Fire Chief John Cozens told selectmen, “We’re here to support our chief and we’d like you gentlemen to appoint him. This is us standing up for him.”

    Chief Foster was not at the board’s meeting Wednesday at Town Hall.

    Deputy Chief Cozens told the board that the chief “is an excellent administrator,” with more than 20 people serving the volunteer department during the day, night and afternoons. Deputy Chief Cozens stressed that no one has left the fire department in the last five years unless they moved out of town.

    Board Chairman James E. Wettlaufer and Selectman Earl A. Johnson both said they agree Chief Foster is good when it comes to fighting fires, but they have a problem with his management skills.

    Stating that selectmen need to take a look as to what the money is spent on, Mr. Wettlaufer took issue with expenditure of funds appropriated at town meeting; specifically, “the amount of money that’s spent for ice melt.”

    Deputy Chief Cozens said, “The last year there has been nothing unreasonably bought by this department. ...As far as I’m concerned, there’s been no money spent foolishly.”

    He said the fire department purchased two cases of canned ice melt to battle equipment condensation and freezing water while fighting fires in the winter. The department only had one chimney fire this winter, compared to 14 last winter, he said, so much of the ice melt has not been used, which will decrease next winter’s purchase.

    Mr. Wettlaufer told the firefighters, “We understand you guys all want to keep him, (but) we are sending a message out (that) we want better management.”

    He told the firefighters that selectmen will take their feelings into account when making the appointment, “but you’ll have to understand that we’re accountable to the taxpayers for the money that is spent. We want to make sure that we get the best bang for the dollar.”

    He ended the discussion, saying, “We can’t discuss personnel issues without him being here because it’s state law.”

    After the board’s meeting, Deputy Chief Cozens said selectmen “have no reason not to reappoint Chief Foster. He has 110 percent support of this Fire Department.”

    Chief Foster’s background includes more than 30 years in fire service in town, first as a firefighter and later becoming fire chief in September 1995.

    Despite several attempts, Chief Foster failed to convince voters to make the position full time; however, he was successful is winning a strong-chief status. To date, he continues to represent all of the call and volunteer fire chiefs on the Massachusetts Fire Training Council. He was the first part-time fire chief to be elected president of the Western Massachusetts Fire Chiefs Association.

    Selectmen voted at a meeting last June 22 to notify Chief Foster that he may not be reappointed when his term expires at the end of this June. At that meeting, Mr. Wettlaufer said, “The fire chief’s appointment expires on June 30, 2006, and under the law, we would have to notify him in writing starting now.” He said that sending the letter now leaves the option open to the board on whether it will reappoint the chief “when the time comes. We’re not saying that we’re not going to reappoint him at all. It just leaves open the option.”

    The next day, June 23, selectmen wrote to Chief Foster and informed him “that the Board of Selectmen is giving you a one-year notice of our decision to not reappoint you for the term starting July 1, 2006.” They wrote that they will work with him “as required to assure the operational efficiency of the Holland Fire Department for the interim period required for the selection of a fire chief.”

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    Apparently there are some underlying issues between "management" and the Chief. I wonder how many of those on the Board could stand scrutiny regarding their individual budget expenditures for the past two years?

    Why is Icemelt such a hot issue here?


    Or do they have a "Puppetman" waiting the wings for appointment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190
    And is not Mass...

    Holland is a small town.

    Because where else would the grounds to fire (well, not re-appoint) the fire chief be...he bought ice melt:

    Friday, March 17, 2006
    Holland firefighters are united in bid to get chief reappointed

    By Patty Lawrence-Perry CORRESPONDENT


    We’re here to support our chief and we’d like you gentlemen to appoint him.

    John Cozens,
    DEPUTY FIRE CHIEF


    HOLLAND— A roomful of firefighters delivered a petition to selectmen this week in support of Fire Chief Paul H. Foster, after board members said his management skills led them to decide not to reappoint him.

    The board had written to Chief Foster last June to give him a year’s notice of its decision not to reappoint him when his term expires this June.

    The petition, signed by the entire Fire Department as well as several retired and former firefighters, stated: “We feel it would be a terrible mistake for you, the selectmen, to not reappoint Paul H. Foster as the Chief of the Holland Fire/Rescue Department.”


    Deputy Fire Chief John Cozens told selectmen, “We’re here to support our chief and we’d like you gentlemen to appoint him. This is us standing up for him.”

    Chief Foster was not at the board’s meeting Wednesday at Town Hall.

    Deputy Chief Cozens told the board that the chief “is an excellent administrator,” with more than 20 people serving the volunteer department during the day, night and afternoons. Deputy Chief Cozens stressed that no one has left the fire department in the last five years unless they moved out of town.

    Board Chairman James E. Wettlaufer and Selectman Earl A. Johnson both said they agree Chief Foster is good when it comes to fighting fires, but they have a problem with his management skills.

    Stating that selectmen need to take a look as to what the money is spent on, Mr. Wettlaufer took issue with expenditure of funds appropriated at town meeting; specifically, “the amount of money that’s spent for ice melt.”

    Deputy Chief Cozens said, “The last year there has been nothing unreasonably bought by this department. ...As far as I’m concerned, there’s been no money spent foolishly.”

    He said the fire department purchased two cases of canned ice melt to battle equipment condensation and freezing water while fighting fires in the winter. The department only had one chimney fire this winter, compared to 14 last winter, he said, so much of the ice melt has not been used, which will decrease next winter’s purchase.

    Mr. Wettlaufer told the firefighters, “We understand you guys all want to keep him, (but) we are sending a message out (that) we want better management.”

    He told the firefighters that selectmen will take their feelings into account when making the appointment, “but you’ll have to understand that we’re accountable to the taxpayers for the money that is spent. We want to make sure that we get the best bang for the dollar.”

    He ended the discussion, saying, “We can’t discuss personnel issues without him being here because it’s state law.”

    After the board’s meeting, Deputy Chief Cozens said selectmen “have no reason not to reappoint Chief Foster. He has 110 percent support of this Fire Department.”

    Chief Foster’s background includes more than 30 years in fire service in town, first as a firefighter and later becoming fire chief in September 1995.

    Despite several attempts, Chief Foster failed to convince voters to make the position full time; however, he was successful is winning a strong-chief status. To date, he continues to represent all of the call and volunteer fire chiefs on the Massachusetts Fire Training Council. He was the first part-time fire chief to be elected president of the Western Massachusetts Fire Chiefs Association.

    Selectmen voted at a meeting last June 22 to notify Chief Foster that he may not be reappointed when his term expires at the end of this June. At that meeting, Mr. Wettlaufer said, “The fire chief’s appointment expires on June 30, 2006, and under the law, we would have to notify him in writing starting now.” He said that sending the letter now leaves the option open to the board on whether it will reappoint the chief “when the time comes. We’re not saying that we’re not going to reappoint him at all. It just leaves open the option.”

    The next day, June 23, selectmen wrote to Chief Foster and informed him “that the Board of Selectmen is giving you a one-year notice of our decision to not reappoint you for the term starting July 1, 2006.” They wrote that they will work with him “as required to assure the operational efficiency of the Holland Fire Department for the interim period required for the selection of a fire chief.”
    small town politics at its best...

    When the cost of ice melt goes up, the present chief will look like a hero...

    PS: good luck finding his replacement!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Ok, help a southern brother out...

    Down here, we usually spell ice melt SUNRISE. Just how much could this stuff possibly cost?

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    How much is in a "case"? Is this a military contract, where a hammer costs $25,000.00?
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    small town politics at its best...

    When the cost of ice melt goes up, the present chief will look like a hero...

    PS: good luck finding his replacement!
    Capt you nailed it!!! Small town politics in New England can make you pull your hair out.

    I once had a "Board member" tell me he could be a fire department with a couple of fire extinguishers in the back of his pickup.... this was at a Open, warned Town Selectboard meeting!! We were toned for a fully involved mobile home fire less than 4 hours later. Flames coming out every window and door! What would the fire extinguisher do with that?? Not all of the people who get on these boards are necessarily doing it for the right reasons or are qualified to run the Town. I am not saying all of them are doing it wrong, but a fair number have their own agendas.

    I just had to present to an open Village Meeting where the public could come in and ask any question they wanted. Which is a good thing, but it also allows people to ask the questions as why you bought Ice melt...

    I was asked, no joking, "If I had thought about what type truck our department should purchase due to the trends in the types of calls and our increasing volumes...." (I just did the presentation with graphs etc...) I would hope that as Chief for the last 9 years, Member for over 20, that I would have thought about what type truck we needed before I asked for over a quarter of a Million dollars!!! We were asking for Voter approval for $285,000 the next day in voting. I had a 6 page report in the Annual Report that was mailed to all taxpayers explaining it in detail, and how we had looked at it. It allows for people who have no clue about firefighting, emergency response to anything come in and rake you over the coals.

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    Well EFD, a quick google shows Ice Melt at $13 for 33 pounds @ BJ's.

    Figuring these where the little 1-gallon sized containers, 12 a case, worse case we might be talking $120.

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    Did he buy the ice melt from a vendor from out of town? That is unforgivable is some parts, regardless of the cost.
    -------------------
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190
    Well EFD, a quick google shows Ice Melt at $13 for 33 pounds @ BJ's.

    Figuring these where the little 1-gallon sized containers, 12 a case, worse case we might be talking $120.
    You know, elected officials at every level need to take credibility classes. If you've got a problem with the chief or anybody else, sit in the corner and be quiet or have the stones to step up and say what's on your mind. Don't try to trump up some bogus issue like $100 worth of supplies.

    I'm trying to come up with that M word. Mitt, mett, mudd...

    Give me a minute and I'll come up with it...

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    And you know EFD, if you have legitimate grounds to have a beef, have a better sound bite ready for the press then "ice melt."

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    Mississippi
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    Somehow, I think there is a large part of this story missing. (or at least I hope)
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    thats just plain ol' MESSED UP !!!!!
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
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    mONGREL......mOOSE?...mODEST......dang it...ill think of it.....
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    Mungo, mu, muck, muckworm... am I getting close?
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    Ooooh, Ooooh, Oooooh, I know, its Mullet!

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    You would hope, wouldn't you Bones?

    I don't know anything else in the papers or the grapevine to add to the story. The fact the Chief is fairly active high up in local fire chiefs association (which would include a number of career chiefs) does give me one clue this isn't Bubba Fire Chief...and that the example brought in the meeting was over "ice melt" instead of something substantial sure doesn't paint a good picture of the Selectmen.

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    Gentlemen of ....... Ooopss, LADIES and Gentlemen of the Forums: This is reason # 27048432854378 why Village, Town, Boro, City, Burg, (And Don't Forget Township) Political Subdivisions should be prohibited by law from having any control over the Fire Rescue Services. Period.
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    Okay i think i got it... Mutton...no?
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    I would certainly like to see what this chief's other expenditures were. Granted, the selectman in question was a tool to mention ice melt in public; anyone stop to think that might have been the first receipt on the pile he grabbed that he didn't like? One of our past chiefs spent $5000 redecorating the meeting room (cherry desks, designer blinds) while our trucks were falling apart and gear wouldn't protect from the heat of a candle.
    If he's been doing a great job (as it appears from parts of the post regarding FF support) I hope he stays on. I agree that small-town elected councils shouldn't have say on fire department matters. When we were spec'ing our new truck out, the clerk for our municipality thought our number was too high so he got quotes which were much less. Luckily the deputy chief pointed out to him that our fire trucks generally have a pump and water on them! (was a helluva nice waterless truck though!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods
    Gentlemen of ....... Ooopss, LADIES and Gentlemen of the Forums: This is reason # 27048432854378 why Village, Town, Boro, City, Burg, (And Don't Forget Township) Political Subdivisions should be prohibited by law from having any control over the Fire Rescue Services. Period.
    And here, I thought you were going to comment that each of those districts was missing or otherwise searching for its Village Idiot.
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