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    Default Indian Point Siren Test

    Computer glitch leaves Indian Point siren test results unclear

    By GREG CLARY
    gclary@lohud.com
    THE JOURNAL NEWS
    (Original publication: March 8, 2006)

    BUCHANAN — Indian Point officials took the entire 156-siren network down about 12:45 this afternoon, according to Rockland County officials, creating the need for police and other emergency personnel to alert residents by individual area in the 10-mile-radius evacuation zone should there be a true emergency.

    Officials at Entergy, which owns the plants, were expected to keep the system off-line for about two or three hours as they tried to figure out what went wrong during a 10:30 a.m. test of the sirens in the four counties surrounding the nuclear plants in Buchanan.

    There was also no back-up siren system available at that time, county officials said.

    A computer program that both triggers the sirens and monitors whether they sound malfunctioned, so officials could not immediately determine how many sirens sounded during the 10:30 a.m. test.

    Indian Point did have some people assigned as spotters. In Westchester, spotters were at 14 locations, and all those sirens sounded, officials reported. Three spotters in Orange County reported their sirens sounded. Information was not immediately available for Rockland and Putnam counties.

    "Let's pray there's no real emergency before the new siren system is tested in October," said C.J. Miller, spokeswoman for Rockland County Executive C. Scott Vanderhoef.

    Indian Point officials have agreed to replace the decades-old system by 2007.

    The sirens are not supposed to signal evacuation, but rather alert residents to check local media sources for more information about an incident at the plants.

    Can you believe these knuckleheads??!!! This is the same plant the terrorists flew over on their way to the Trade Center. These sirens are all over the place and their only apparent function is to collect bird sh*t. What a disgrace!!!

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    The problem was fixed 3 days later. And sorry, but those sirens are not gonna be much use if they decide to fly a plane into the plant. (More than likely, the plane will NOT cause any catostrophic release of nuclear chemicals. The danger comes from the apparently uneducated (just an assumption here) people who "push the wrong buttons", or the management who refused to fix small problems over the years until they became dangerous enough that it caused attention. Unless you wanna put AAA or SAMS on the roof, I wouldnt worry about the airplanes. Nothing we can do about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    Can you believe these knuckleheads??!!! This is the same plant the terrorists flew over on their way to the Trade Center. These sirens are all over the place and their only apparent function is to collect bird sh*t. What a disgrace!!!
    Umm. What the hell are you talking about? This is so ignorant, I feel the need to pick it apart piece by piece to show how rediculous and dramatic you sound.

    Can I venture a guess that you think it would go up with a huge mushroom cloud like hiroshima if there is a malfunction and level a few square miles? "Like, what if the plant like explodes!" They don't do that, just incase that is what you think would happen. Most people who over-react to stories like this are under the impression a nuclear power plant is nothing more than little boy & fat man with a cement lid.

    Yes, the terrorists flew by it. They probably flew over or within a few miles of many many nuclear power stations. What is your point? What does that have to do with anything? And just to humor you, there is probably a good reason they flew OVER it and not INTO it. They weren't stupid enough to waste their giant hijacked plane on it. They wanted to actually cause damage and kill people. Flying a 757 into the containment unit of a nuclear reactor would probably be pretty boring. In fact, I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't go beyond a Site Area Emergency or a rather low level General Emergency. They build the containment units to withstand planes. The damage to the surrounding buildings I suppose could cause some contaiminated coolant to leave or something like that but I really doubt there would be total loss of containment. The unit would scram immidiately and HazMat would take care of containing any water that gets out.


    Now, back to the sirens. What exactly are using to justify this horrendous act of malfecense that you claim the power company has committed against the community? It seems to me like everything is going exactly as it should be. The sirens are all supervised. The computer system that supervises them malfunctioned. The malfunction was noticed immidiately. Action is being taken to fix/repair/replace what is causing the malfuction immidiately. The public was notified immidiately of the potential problem. The local emergency officials were warned of the malfunction and to as always, be ready for plan B immidiately.

    What exactly would you like them to do? Pull an instant solution out of their *** and install it within 10 minutes of a possible problem with no troubleshooting neccessary? Or maybe you suggest psychic notification so just in case the sirens malfunction, you an be notified instantly. You can sit the and admonish them up and down but you have yet to explain what they've done that is so wrong and offer a better idea to make it right.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire
    They build the containment units to withstand planes.

    The Word Trader Center towers were also built and designed to withstand planes. We all saw what happened to those.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire
    Umm. What the hell are you talking about? This is so ignorant, I feel the need to pick it apart piece by piece to show how rediculous and dramatic you sound.

    Can I venture a guess that you think it would go up with a huge mushroom cloud like hiroshima if there is a malfunction and level a few square miles? "Like, what if the plant like explodes!" They don't do that, just incase that is what you think would happen. Most people who over-react to stories like this are under the impression a nuclear power plant is nothing more than little boy & fat man with a cement lid.

    Yes, the terrorists flew by it. They probably flew over or within a few miles of many many nuclear power stations. What is your point? What does that have to do with anything? And just to humor you, there is probably a good reason they flew OVER it and not INTO it. They weren't stupid enough to waste their giant hijacked plane on it. They wanted to actually cause damage and kill people. Flying a 757 into the containment unit of a nuclear reactor would probably be pretty boring. In fact, I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't go beyond a Site Area Emergency or a rather low level General Emergency. They build the containment units to withstand planes. The damage to the surrounding buildings I suppose could cause some contaiminated coolant to leave or something like that but I really doubt there would be total loss of containment. The unit would scram immidiately and HazMat would take care of containing any water that gets out.


    Now, back to the sirens. What exactly are using to justify this horrendous act of malfecense that you claim the power company has committed against the community? It seems to me like everything is going exactly as it should be. The sirens are all supervised. The computer system that supervises them malfunctioned. The malfunction was noticed immidiately. Action is being taken to fix/repair/replace what is causing the malfuction immidiately. The public was notified immidiately of the potential problem. The local emergency officials were warned of the malfunction and to as always, be ready for plan B immidiately.

    What exactly would you like them to do? Pull an instant solution out of their *** and install it within 10 minutes of a possible problem with no troubleshooting neccessary? Or maybe you suggest psychic notification so just in case the sirens malfunction, you an be notified instantly. You can sit the and admonish them up and down but you have yet to explain what they've done that is so wrong and offer a better idea to make it right.
    Here's both sides of the story. I know nmfire's position. The rest of you decide for yourselves.

    http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...k10172004.html

    http://www.secureindianpoint.org/dow...ealthstudy.pdf
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    Sorry, but I have to agree with UBS, and here is why.
    1.) A recent study showed that the evacuation plan for this plant in particular were grossly outdated and inefficient. The towns surrounding the plant all want improvements made, as this part of the state is plagued by small, twisting back roads- makes evacuation difficult of large populations. This is not to mention that some studies showed an incident could force evacuations 50 miles away, although the plant's plan calls for a 10 mi. radius evacuations [50 miles would include roughly all of the five boroughs of new york, much of downstate new york].
    2.) Yes, planes fly over all sorts of infrastructure, but the Indian Point facility is necessarily different. More people surround the plant, and it is passed at relatively low altitude and sometimes even used as a landmark for a turn into the NY airports. My understanding is that it was used by the 9/11 terrorists.
    3.)I'm not fully educated on nuclear power, but i do not think there would be a big mushroom cloud. I have, however, tried to learn something from 9/11, that when they say a building can withstand a plane... I do not believe it. It's funny to me, everyone talks about how safe and foolproof nuclear power is, yet I can recall several tragedies caused by it.

    4.) The sirens. All this adds up to what seems like a low level of concern for the community at risk. I do not remember the sirens ever being tested, and to test them after what may be a period of years to find a malfunction, there could have been an incident last month and what would have happened to the residents?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruenRescue2003
    The Word Trader Center towers were also built and designed to withstand planes. We all saw what happened to those.
    They were built to withstand an impact from a plane of the era in which they were built, not the size of those built today. Besides, if you'll recall, the towers withstood the impact, gave quite a lot of time for evacuation, and then collapsed due to the amount of fire from the jet fuel and internal fuel load.

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    4.) The sirens. All this adds up to what seems like a low level of concern for the community at risk. I do not remember the sirens ever being tested, and to test them after what may be a period of years to find a malfunction, there could have been an incident last month and what would have happened to the residents?
    The sirens are tested quarterly. If there was in incident last month, the backup systems would have worked. In Rockland and Westchester, all volunteer FDs that still have operating sirens would have sounded. Reverse 911 would have been used, PD would have been up and down the streets announcing what was going on (I know, alittle archaic, but it works), and the emergency alert system would have been sounded on TV and Radio.

    And since the prevailing winds in our area are from the West, the 50 mile radius would have to be misshaped to look like an egg into the east farther than the 50 miles.

    Like I said before, we should be more concerned with the level of incompotence of the workers and management at Indian Point, not an airplane crashing into it. But thats just me.

    As someone else pointed out, the sirens arent meant to signal evacuations. They are just another, albeit archaic way to say, hey, turn on your damn TV or radio and find out if we are all gonna be glowing green in a few hours.
    If the people who are at risk do not take their own precautions, such as having battery operated radios to listen to any alerts that may come about, then sorry, but a siren isnt gonna make much difference anyway.


    Edited to Add: Sorry if my ideas are kind of all jumbled around. Its been a long weekend.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 03-20-2006 at 10:54 AM.
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    Oh good grief. Does anybody read anything or is this whole thread going to be a bunch of people spreading rumors and misinformation.

    Quote Originally Posted by orangehopeful
    Sorry, but I have to agree with UBS, and here is why.
    1.) A recent study showed that the evacuation plan for this plant in particular were grossly outdated and inefficient. The towns surrounding the plant all want improvements made, as this part of the state is plagued by small, twisting back roads- makes evacuation difficult of large populations. This is not to mention that some studies showed an incident could force evacuations 50 miles away, although the plant's plan calls for a 10 mi. radius evacuations [50 miles would include roughly all of the five boroughs of new york, much of downstate new york].
    How is this the utility company's fault and what do you suggest they do about it? The community will not tolerate building a 6 lane interstate highway through the middle of their nice quiet backcountry towns. And even if they would tolerate it, it isn't the utility company's job to build the road and/or force people to use them.


    Quote Originally Posted by orangehopeful
    2.) Yes, planes fly over all sorts of infrastructure, but the Indian Point facility is necessarily different. More people surround the plant, and it is passed at relatively low altitude and sometimes even used as a landmark for a turn into the NY airports. My understanding is that it was used by the 9/11 terrorists.
    Yep. They are all obvious targets. They stick out like a sore thumb. Nothing else looks like a nuclear power station. They are all close enough to population that a total loss of containment would be devastating. Mass evacuation from the area surrounded almost all of them would be impractical. This one is no more special than any other one.

    Quote Originally Posted by orangehopeful
    3.)I'm not fully educated on nuclear power, but i do not think there would be a big mushroom cloud. I have, however, tried to learn something from 9/11, that when they say a building can withstand a plane... I do not believe it. It's funny to me, everyone talks about how safe and foolproof nuclear power is, yet I can recall several tragedies caused by it.
    It is very much like flying. It is safer than the news media makes it out to be. Think about how many nuclear power stations there are in operation and for how many years. Then compare it to how many "tragedies" there have been that you speak of. Off the top of my head, I can think of only one tragedy and that was Chernobyl. That was also caused by incompetence and stupidity. There was the incident at Three Mile Island but it was certainly not a tragedy. It was an accident and it was contained to the site area. Where are these "several tragedies"??


    Quote Originally Posted by orangehopeful
    4.) The sirens. All this adds up to what seems like a low level of concern for the community at risk. I do not remember the sirens ever being tested, and to test them after what may be a period of years to find a malfunction, there could have been an incident last month and what would have happened to the residents?
    Once again, the mis-informed trying to speak facts. So you don't remember them being tested, that must mean they just let them sit there collecting dust for years? They are tested quarterly and the tests are fully supervised.

    And nobody said the sirens weren't working for that matter. The system that supervises the sirens confirm they work is what malfunctioned. The sirens work, they just don't have the positive verification that each individual one worked.

    And to answer your questions, just for giggles, as to what would happen if the sirens didn't work. They go their backup plan for just such a problem. The local authorities get out on the road and spread the word. The local municipal sirens are sounded on the firehouses. The televisions and radio stations all have automatic EAS overrides regardless of the sirens working or not.

    The sirens are not to indicate evacuation. They are to tell you turn on the the TV or radio and listen for information.
    Last edited by nmfire; 03-20-2006 at 11:53 AM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    NM-
    my point was not that the company should be changing infrastructure, but just that a plan should be created that could ensure the safety and security of all citizens in the event of any kind of an emergency.
    While the sirens are "tested" quarterly, they are only sounded annualy (so yes, 364 days a year they are "collecting dust"), and I honestly cannot remember the last time there was a test of the system as a whole. The monitoring system was, to the best of my knowledge, installed two years ago, and is definately a step in the right direction! However, you stated that mass evacuations are going to be unlikely. I believe that the challenge requires responders, as well as citizens and systems, to be fully functioning and efficient, so as to give the highest chance for the greatest number of citizens to evacuate.

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    The sirens are tested and SOUNDED quarterly, not annually. They are only tested at full volume for full length annually.

    It is not indian point's responsibility to sound the sirens. It is each county govt's responsibility.

    http://www.westchestergov.com/discem...renTestFAQ.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by orangehopeful
    NM-
    my point was not that the company should be changing infrastructure, but just that a plan should be created that could ensure the safety and security of all citizens in the event of any kind of an emergency.
    Ensuring the safety and security of the citizens? There is a lot more to that than a bunch of sirens. The sirens are only a small part of it and not having them is probably not nearly as disasterous as you and others seem to think it is. The only way to "ensure the citizens safety and security" is to move them out of harms way or prevent the accident in the first place. There are lots of plans for gettng out of harms way. They are all immpractical. They all involve one thing that is not going to happen: Mass evacuation. The general public can not efficiently evacuate a supermarket, forget a whole county or section thereof. As far as preventing the need for mass evacuation with safety systems, those plans and systems are already in place and have been most likely since the plant was built. You seem to want a plan that entails surrounding the plant with a giant magical bubble that will protect everyone outside of it. You making an issue out of a non-issue, mostly.


    Quote Originally Posted by orangehopeful
    While the sirens are "tested" quarterly, they are only sounded annualy (so yes, 364 days a year they are "collecting dust"), and I honestly cannot remember the last time there was a test of the system as a whole.
    No, the sirens are sounded for a test quarterly. One of those tests per year is a full-length test. None the less, they all involve the actual operation of the siren and if something doesn't work, the supervision system would detect it. What do you want them to do? Run them all up to full every day at noon? Once again, the general public will not tolerate that. And if they still are forced to put up with it, they will just ignore it when it is for real because it goes off every day.


    Quote Originally Posted by orangehopeful
    The monitoring system was, to the best of my knowledge, installed two years ago, and is definately a step in the right direction! However, you stated that mass evacuations are going to be unlikely. I believe that the challenge requires responders, as well as citizens and systems, to be fully functioning and efficient, so as to give the highest chance for the greatest number of citizens to evacuate.
    Agaid you are equating the sirens to evacuations. That is NOT what the sirens mean. The sirens are telling people who happen to not be in front of a TV or radio to turn one on. Instructions and information will be forthcoming. It does not mean to evacuate.

    The problem of mass evacuations is a completely seperate problem and has absolutely nothing at all whatsoever to do with this topic of malfunctioning sirens.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Terrorism aside, let's take a look at a year in the life of Indian Point...

    anuary 2005: For the third consecutive year Westchester, Rockland , and Orange County officials refuse to submit their Annual Certification Letters, a checklist for the Indian Point emergency evacuation plans. For the second year in a row Putnam County Executive Robert Bondi submits his county’s paperwork, despite no material changes to the plan since the Witt Report concluded that the plan is gravely flawed and probably cannot be fixed.

    January, 19 2005: Westchester County hosts State Emergency Management Office Open House for Indian Point. Potassium Iodide pills are distributed to the public.

    January 24, 2005: IP guard discovered drunk while acting as a safety supervisor at a firing range where other Entergy security workers were undergoing firearms training on the job at Indian Point. He receives a two week suspension.

    January 26, 2005: Congressional delegates, Eliot Engel (D-NY), Nita Lowey (D-Westchester/Rockland) and Sue Kelly (R-NY) notify the NRC that any failure of emergency sirens at Indian Point is unacceptable.

    January 31, 2005: At a Press Club luncheon NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer says he supports the closure of Indian Point, if energy reliability can be assured.

    February 8, 2005: Westchester County Executive Andy Spano calls on the NRC to investigate emergency sirens at Indian Point.

    February 10/11, 2005: Control rods fail to load properly at Indian Point.

    February 10, 2005: Ulster County Board of Legislators overwhelmingly votes in favor of opposing a 20-year license extension on Indian Point. Ulster County becomes fourth county board, and joins an addition 16 municipal boards that have passed a similar resolution opposing the relicensing of Indian Point.

    February 14, 2005: Due to Entergy’s improper handling of radioactive waste, an Indian Point shipment of low-level radioactive waste is discovered leaking upon arrival at the Barnwell Waste Management Facility in Barnwell , South Carolina . According to the NRC at least one worker was exposed to radioactive materials; this is in violation of South Carolina laws regulating the handling of nuclear waste at the Barnwell facility.

    April 6, 2005: The long awaited study by the National Academy of Sciences on the vulnerability of spent fuel pools at U.S. nuclear power plants is released. The report, released yesterday, confirms what Riverkeeper has maintained since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001: the spent fuel pools at nuclear power plants are soft targets, vulnerable to terrorist attack by aircraft or high explosives, and pose a high risk to public health and safety due to the high levels of volatile radionuclides present in the irradiated fuel. Riverkeeper calls on Governor Pataki and Congressional delegates to immediately appoint an independent commission to review Indian Point’s spent fuel pools, their vulnerability to terrorist attack, and possible solutions to minimize the grave risks posed to the public in the event of a terrorist attack at Indian Point.

    April 12, 2005: The Government Accountability Office issues a scathing report of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and nuclear power plant owners, including Entergy, for their ineffective oversight, poor inventory management, and lax safety and security management of high-level radioactive spent fuel at the 103 nuclear power plants in the United States . In 2004 Entergy lost high-level radioactive spent fuel rods at its Vermont Yankee nuclear plant.

    May 18, 2005: NRC issues a Notice of Violation to Entergy Nuclear, Indian Point 2, following an inspection revealing that Entergy failed to respond adequately to a buildup of nitrogen gas in the safety injection pump system, which controls water flow in the emergency backup cooling system. The buildup of nitrogen gas had continued for 77 days before the NRC notified Entergy of the seriousness of the problem, knocking out one pump completely and damaging two others.

    June 9, 2005: Levitan Associates releases a report commissioned by Westchester County to study the feasibility of retiring Indian Point before its licenses expire. The report states that the energy currently supplied by Indian Point 2 & 3 could be easily replaced through a combination of new plants and increased energy efficiency measures at the state level, with the increase to ratepayers estimated to be “less than a slice of pizza per month.”

    June 20, 2005: Congresswoman Nita Lowey authors The Nuclear Power Licensing Reform Act of 2005. If passed, it would require that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission must apply the same licensing standards to old nuclear power plants as new nuclear power plants, must take into account changes in population around a nuclear power plant, must require adequate emergency evacuation plans for populations within a 50-mile radius of a nuclear power plant, and must take into account threats to the population due to security and safety vulnerabilities at a nuclear power plant.

    July 2005: Power to Indian Point’s emergency siren system is knocked out on two different occasions, once for six hours before officials were aware of the problem.

    July 29, 2005 : Entergy Nuclear NE publicly commits to replacing the malfunctioning emergency siren system, following repeated failed tests and power outages earlier in the summer. NY Senator Hillary Clinton’s amendment to the 2005 Energy Bill– which was signed into law by President Bush – mandates that Indian Point’s sirens have reliable backup power.

    August/September 2005: The emergency siren system fails to operate properly during testing on several occasions, due to problems with Verizon’s phone lines and software failures that resulted in all of Rockland County ’s sirens failing to sound for nearly an hour.

    August 1, 2005: NRC issues a “White Finding” to Entergy for their failed response to a nitrogen gas leak first discovered in April 2005.

    September 12-15, 2005: Department of Homeland Security conducts a review of security and emergency planning at Indian Point, as part of the federal government’s “Comprehensive Assessment” of the vulnerability of the nation’s infrastructure to terrorist attack. A siren test conducted during the review once again fails to activate a significant number of sirens. The review is unrelated to the widespread criticism of FEMA/DHS following Hurricane Katrina.

    September 20, 2005: NRC and Entergy notify the public that radioactive water is leaking from IP2’s spent fuel pool. The leak was discovered by contractors excavating earth from the base of the pool in preparation for the installation of a new crane, for use in transferring spent fuel from the pool to dry cask storage. NRC assures the public there is no “immediate risk to public health or the environment.” NRC later admits that Entergy first discovered the leak twenty days earlier, but did not believe it was serious enough to warrant public notification. NRC orders a special inspection to determine the source of the leak.

    September 29, 2005: A control rod malfunction at IP3 forces the reactor to cut power by 35% immediately and notify the NRC. The control rods are designed to operate in unison, dropping into the reactor core to slow the fission process if a problem arises. In this case, a single rod dropped into the core without warning.

    October 2-9, 2005: Indian Point 3 is completely shut down following the control rod malfunction. The electrical switch the NRC believes caused the problem is replaced. Despite the loss of 1,000 MW to the NY power grid, there are no disruptions or significant price increases during the week that IP3 is inoperative.

    October 5, 2005: Entergy notifies the NRC that a sample from a monitoring well located in the IP2 transformer yard shows tritium contamination that is ten times the EPA drinking water limit for the radionuclide, and is consistent with tritiated water from a spent fuel pool. The NRC broadens its special inspection to include this new information. The NRC also states in its report that the monitoring well had not been checked since its installation in 2000, following the transfer of IP’s ownership from ConEd to Entergy.

    October 7, 2005 : The NRC updates its Special Inspection Charter for the IP2 Tritium Leak to include a review of Entergy’s efforts to control the ongoing leak from the IP1 Spent Fuel Pool.

    October 18, 2005 : The NRC and Entergy confirm that the radioactive leak discovered in August is greater than initially believed. The radioactive isotope, tritium, has been discovered in five sampling wells around Indian Point 2, while the leak at the spent fuel pool has increased to about two liters per day. Exposure to tritium increases the risk of developing cancer. The company plans to test more wells, inspect the liner of the leaking fuel pool, and install additional monitoring wells.

    October 18, 2005: A test of the Indian Point sirens failed again today. Ten of 15 sirens in Orange County and another four of the 156 total sirens within the 10-mile evacuation zone failed to sound during the routine test.

    October 28, 2005 : NRC Region 1 Director Sam Collins formally requests permission from the agency’s Executive Director of Operations to increase oversight at Indian Point on two matters, the tritium leak and the continued problems with the emergency sirens. Permission is granted three days later.

    November 16, 2005: The NRC holds a public meeting with Entergy to discuss the company’s plan for replacing the emergency siren system at Indian Point. Entergy announces their commitment to completely replacing the system by January 2007 with new sirens that will have backup battery power. However, statements by DHS officials regarding a lengthy approval process for the sirens put the time schedule in doubt. In addition, NRC official Erik Leeds argued that the Energy Policy Act of 2005 required that the NRC enforce the order within 18 months, not that backup power be installed within 18 months.

    November 26, 2005 : The tritium leak at IP2 remains unsolved, nearly three months after its discovery. Entergy’s use of underwater cameras and divers to visually inspect and test for leaks at three locations on the steel liner’s surface yield no results. Entergy must now employ different cameras to inspect the liner near the bottom of the pool, where the radiation is too high for a human diver to enter.

    December 1, 2005 : Entergy reports to the NRC that an initial sample from a new monitoring well five feet from the wall of the IP2 Spent Fuel Pool shows tritium levels in the groundwater at thirty times the EPA limit, the highest level of tritium contamination yet discovered. In addition, the NRC announces that preliminary tests of tritiated water found in the IP1 Pool Collection System contain too much tritium to be from the IP1 Pool, suggesting that tritium-laced water is being collected in the IP1 Drain from another, unknown source. The NRC still does not know where the leak is coming from, how long it has been leaking, or the extent of groundwater contamination under the plant.

    OH yeah, a record anyone would be proud of. Hey, barkeep another round for the guys with the lovely lime green glow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22
    They were built to withstand an impact from a plane of the era in which they were built, not the size of those built today. Besides, if you'll recall, the towers withstood the impact, gave quite a lot of time for evacuation, and then collapsed due to the amount of fire from the jet fuel and internal fuel load.
    The nuclear power plants were also built to withstand an impact from a plane of their era. Indian Point was built in the 1960's. The largest plane that was around in the 1960's was pretty small compared to the largest planes we have today. Unless they've redesigned the power plants, particularly Indian Point, to withstand the bigger newer planes it's sitting there outdated and obsolete.
    New York State EMT-B

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    Default nmfire had it right

    I have worked in emergency management for a county with a nuclear power plant since "three mile island". We have a plan, the plan is tested by FEMA every two years, the sirens are tested monthly and are now monitored by computer. We can also use the siren system for other emergencies and have.

    When the sirens sound it is an "alert" meaning turn on the TV or radio. We have direct access to the Emergency Alert System from our EOC and can provide all necessary information.

    Our plant will withstand an earthquake, plane crash, etc. We all joke that they shouldn't worry about the plant, but rather the switch yard. Destroy the switch yard and you disrupt electric power to thousands. In fact, if you know which three switch yards in Michigan and Indiana to destroy, you can put all of northern Indiana and southwestern Michigan out of electric power for up to three months.

    Let's get real folks. The sirens are just one part of a very comprehensive system designed to protect the public. The fairlure of one part of the system may cause extra work for emergency officials, but will not harm the public.

    And by the way, Nuclear power plants CANNOT GO BOOM.

    Pete
    Pete Sinclair
    Hartford, MI
    IACOJ (Retired Division)

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    I appreciate the answers and responses to my posts, and I am sorry if I got a little off post. I know a bit about Indian Point, and as UBS has posted, it is not always smooth sailing over there. I understand all the backup systems, but when you hear about some of the problems going on there, it is not exactly comforting. Many of the problems springing up have deep roots, and I have a feeling more will come out, and the current problems will be around for quite some time.

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    I see you can cut-n-paste. Congradulations. This is going to be too easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    anuary 2005: For the third consecutive year Westchester, Rockland , and Orange County officials refuse to submit their Annual Certification Letters, a checklist for the Indian Point emergency evacuation plans. For the second year in a row Putnam County Executive Robert Bondi submits his county’s paperwork, despite no material changes to the plan since the Witt Report concluded that the plan is gravely flawed and probably cannot be fixed.
    Not the utility company's problem. The plant is not responsible for the county's evacuation plans. That is the county's problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    January, 19 2005: Westchester County hosts State Emergency Management Office Open House for Indian Point. Potassium Iodide pills are distributed to the public.
    That was nice of them. Are you upset because the coffee was cold or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    January 24, 2005: IP guard discovered drunk while acting as a safety supervisor at a firing range where other Entergy security workers were undergoing firearms training on the job at Indian Point. He receives a two week suspension.
    Should have been suspended a longer that that, or better yet fired. Not sure how this is a major safety concern for the plant though.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    January 26, 2005: Congressional delegates, Eliot Engel (D-NY), Nita Lowey (D-Westchester/Rockland) and Sue Kelly (R-NY) notify the NRC that any failure of emergency sirens at Indian Point is unacceptable.
    Good for them. They can throw paper at the power plant fix everything. Typical politicians. They do nothing to help the real issues but try to sound all concerned by "sending nasty letters". What is this, the UN?


    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    January 31, 2005: At a Press Club luncheon NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer says he supports the closure of Indian Point, if energy reliability can be assured.
    And this again has what to do with the safety of the plan? Are you going to make a valid point sometime today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    February 8, 2005: Westchester County Executive Andy Spano calls on the NRC to investigate emergency sirens at Indian Point.
    Sounds good to me. It's always nice to ensure proper operation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    February 10/11, 2005: Control rods fail to load properly at Indian Point.
    What is your point? Do you even know what a control rod is? Guess what happens when the unit that inserts the control rods has an electrical failure? It goes failsafe and inserts the control rods. This causes an immidiate controlled and safe shutdown of the reactor. It was an equipment malfunction that is anticipated and has systems to prevent a disaster, which obviously worked just as they are supposed to. Learn a little about it before you try to make it look like some calamity.


    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    February 10, 2005: Ulster County Board of Legislators overwhelmingly votes in favor of opposing a 20-year license extension on Indian Point. Ulster County becomes fourth county board, and joins an addition 16 municipal boards that have passed a similar resolution opposing the relicensing of Indian Point.
    Again, nothing to do with the plant's operations and safety. Blah blah.


    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    February 14, 2005: Due to Entergy’s improper handling of radioactive waste, an Indian Point shipment of low-level radioactive waste is discovered leaking upon arrival at the Barnwell Waste Management Facility in Barnwell , South Carolina . According to the NRC at least one worker was exposed to radioactive materials; this is in violation of South Carolina laws regulating the handling of nuclear waste at the Barnwell facility.
    Well, you've managed to come up with one incident so far. I'm sure those responsible were dealt with. Since I can't find anything but conspiricy theory website to say anythign about this, I can't find an official report.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    April 6, 2005: The long awaited study by the National Academy of Sciences on the vulnerability of spent fuel pools at U.S. nuclear power plants is released. The report, released yesterday, confirms what Riverkeeper has maintained since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001: the spent fuel pools at nuclear power plants are soft targets, vulnerable to terrorist attack by aircraft or high explosives, and pose a high risk to public health and safety due to the high levels of volatile radionuclides present in the irradiated fuel. Riverkeeper calls on Governor Pataki and Congressional delegates to immediately appoint an independent commission to review Indian Point’s spent fuel pools, their vulnerability to terrorist attack, and possible solutions to minimize the grave risks posed to the public in the event of a terrorist attack at Indian Point.
    More blah blah blah rather than incidents showing neglect.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    April 12, 2005: The Government Accountability Office issues a scathing report of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and nuclear power plant owners, including Entergy, for their ineffective oversight, poor inventory management, and lax safety and security management of high-level radioactive spent fuel at the 103 nuclear power plants in the United States . In 2004 Entergy lost high-level radioactive spent fuel rods at its Vermont Yankee nuclear plant.
    Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    May 18, 2005: NRC issues a Notice of Violation to Entergy Nuclear, Indian Point 2, following an inspection revealing that Entergy failed to respond adequately to a buildup of nitrogen gas in the safety injection pump system, which controls water flow in the emergency backup cooling system. The buildup of nitrogen gas had continued for 77 days before the NRC notified Entergy of the seriousness of the problem, knocking out one pump completely and damaging two others.
    We have another minor issue. For all this blabbling, you now have two minor incidents.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    June 9, 2005: Levitan Associates releases a report commissioned by Westchester County to study the feasibility of retiring Indian Point before its licenses expire. The report states that the energy currently supplied by Indian Point 2 & 3 could be easily replaced through a combination of new plants and increased energy efficiency measures at the state level, with the increase to ratepayers estimated to be “less than a slice of pizza per month.”
    yadda yadda yadda

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    June 20, 2005: Congresswoman Nita Lowey authors The Nuclear Power Licensing Reform Act of 2005. If passed, it would require that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission must apply the same licensing standards to old nuclear power plants as new nuclear power plants, must take into account changes in population around a nuclear power plant, must require adequate emergency evacuation plans for populations within a 50-mile radius of a nuclear power plant, and must take into account threats to the population due to security and safety vulnerabilities at a nuclear power plant.
    Yawn

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    July 2005: Power to Indian Point’s emergency siren system is knocked out on two different occasions, once for six hours before officials were aware of the problem.
    Care to explain why? Do you even know who was at fault? No information = not a worthwhile defense.


    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    July 29, 2005 : Entergy Nuclear NE publicly commits to replacing the malfunctioning emergency siren system, following repeated failed tests and power outages earlier in the summer. NY Senator Hillary Clinton’s amendment to the 2005 Energy Bill– which was signed into law by President Bush – mandates that Indian Point’s sirens have reliable backup power.
    Excellent. This is supposed to be a negative? And oh whooopy. Billary Clinton.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    August/September 2005: The emergency siren system fails to operate properly during testing on several occasions, due to problems with Verizon’s phone lines and software failures that resulted in all of Rockland County ’s sirens failing to sound for nearly an hour.
    This doesn't sound like the utility company's problem. Why is it on this dumb list.?

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    August 1, 2005: NRC issues a “White Finding” to Entergy for their failed response to a nitrogen gas leak first discovered in April 2005.
    This is a repeat from before.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    September 12-15, 2005: Department of Homeland Security conducts a review of security and emergency planning at Indian Point, as part of the federal government’s “Comprehensive Assessment” of the vulnerability of the nation’s infrastructure to terrorist attack. A siren test conducted during the review once again fails to activate a significant number of sirens. The review is unrelated to the widespread criticism of FEMA/DHS following Hurricane Katrina.
    Of course, there is no explanation as to what caused the malfuction. Again, usless defense.


    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    September 20, 2005: NRC and Entergy notify the public that radioactive water is leaking from IP2’s spent fuel pool. The leak was discovered by contractors excavating earth from the base of the pool in preparation for the installation of a new crane, for use in transferring spent fuel from the pool to dry cask storage. NRC assures the public there is no “immediate risk to public health or the environment.” NRC later admits that Entergy first discovered the leak twenty days earlier, but did not believe it was serious enough to warrant public notification. NRC orders a special inspection to determine the source of the leak.
    Ok. Sounds kinda stupid on their part. But was there truely any risk of anything here? Doubtful.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    September 29, 2005: A control rod malfunction at IP3 forces the reactor to cut power by 35% immediately and notify the NRC. The control rods are designed to operate in unison, dropping into the reactor core to slow the fission process if a problem arises. In this case, a single rod dropped into the core without warning.
    Once again, this demonstrates the failsafe systems work.


    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    October 2-9, 2005: Indian Point 3 is completely shut down following the control rod malfunction. The electrical switch the NRC believes caused the problem is replaced. Despite the loss of 1,000 MW to the NY power grid, there are no disruptions or significant price increases during the week that IP3 is inoperative.
    Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    October 5, 2005: Entergy notifies the NRC that a sample from a monitoring well located in the IP2 transformer yard shows tritium contamination that is ten times the EPA drinking water limit for the radionuclide, and is consistent with tritiated water from a spent fuel pool. The NRC broadens its special inspection to include this new information. The NRC also states in its report that the monitoring well had not been checked since its installation in 2000, following the transfer of IP’s ownership from ConEd to Entergy.
    More stupidity but once again, was there any risk to anyone anywhere? Sure doesn't look like it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    October 7, 2005 : The NRC updates its Special Inspection Charter for the IP2 Tritium Leak to include a review of Entergy’s efforts to control the ongoing leak from the IP1 Spent Fuel Pool.
    More nothing to make the list look longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    October 18, 2005 : The NRC and Entergy confirm that the radioactive leak discovered in August is greater than initially believed. The radioactive isotope, tritium, has been discovered in five sampling wells around Indian Point 2, while the leak at the spent fuel pool has increased to about two liters per day. Exposure to tritium increases the risk of developing cancer. The company plans to test more wells, inspect the liner of the leaking fuel pool, and install additional monitoring wells.
    This whole leaking tank thing could have been put in one line-item. Splitting it up to make the plant look worse makes you look worse, not the plant.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    October 18, 2005: A test of the Indian Point sirens failed again today. Ten of 15 sirens in Orange County and another four of the 156 total sirens within the 10-mile evacuation zone failed to sound during the routine test.
    As usual, a piece of a fact with no information as to why and how.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    October 28, 2005 : NRC Region 1 Director Sam Collins formally requests permission from the agency’s Executive Director of Operations to increase oversight at Indian Point on two matters, the tritium leak and the continued problems with the emergency sirens. Permission is granted three days later.
    Here we go, back to the leak thing again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    November 16, 2005: The NRC holds a public meeting with Entergy to discuss the company’s plan for replacing the emergency siren system at Indian Point. Entergy announces their commitment to completely replacing the system by January 2007 with new sirens that will have backup battery power. However, statements by DHS officials regarding a lengthy approval process for the sirens put the time schedule in doubt. In addition, NRC official Erik Leeds argued that the Energy Policy Act of 2005 required that the NRC enforce the order within 18 months, not that backup power be installed within 18 months.
    Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    November 26, 2005 : The tritium leak at IP2 remains unsolved, nearly three months after its discovery. Entergy’s use of underwater cameras and divers to visually inspect and test for leaks at three locations on the steel liner’s surface yield no results. Entergy must now employ different cameras to inspect the liner near the bottom of the pool, where the radiation is too high for a human diver to enter.

    December 1, 2005 : Entergy reports to the NRC that an initial sample from a new monitoring well five feet from the wall of the IP2 Spent Fuel Pool shows tritium levels in the groundwater at thirty times the EPA limit, the highest level of tritium contamination yet discovered. In addition, the NRC announces that preliminary tests of tritiated water found in the IP1 Pool Collection System contain too much tritium to be from the IP1 Pool, suggesting that tritium-laced water is being collected in the IP1 Drain from another, unknown source. The NRC still does not know where the leak is coming from, how long it has been leaking, or the extent of groundwater contamination under the plant.
    Blah blah blah. Once again, this whole leak thing is one incident.

    Quote Originally Posted by ubshockey
    OH yeah, a record anyone would be proud of. Hey, barkeep another round for the guys with the lovely lime green glow
    Poor attempt at humor.


    So, out of all of that banter, there are actually maybe four things. Perhaps one of which was actually a serious health issue (the waste leak). When you can do something other than copy/paste from an anti-nuke website and provide some actual information, get back to me.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  18. #18
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    yet I can recall several tragedies caused by it.

    Any day now, nuclear power may catch up with the carnage caused by gasoline.

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