NattyJ, may be you should follow your advice and re-read the previous posts..."We've been told we will never get on a roof to ventilate except maybe commercial" (JHR1985) or "I've never seen one cut even with substantial fire conditions in the attic. Miraculously, the fire goes out." (misleading sarcasm?) NDeMarse. The fact is some people believe whether from policy, lack of experience, or luck that attic fires do not need vertical venting. From your obvious vast level of experience, I will not include you, but as noted in posts and seen on pictures on this website, some fire departments do not believe in vertically venting attic fires in single family dwellings, whether peaked roofs or not. This lack of insight can cause serious injury and/or death to interior crews. This is a fact.
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Thread: vertical venting
03-24-2006, 09:43 PM #41
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03-25-2006, 08:07 AM #42
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- Jul 2003
- Brooklyn, New York
kierman: I took you're advice and re-read it. I maintain there seems to be a general agreement that venting a peaked roof building with fire directly underneath the roof is good practice. The debate seems to be regarding routine cutting of the roof, when it often isnt needed, which I stand by my comments on. I never once claimed to have vast(your words not mine)experience (I did claim that those who wrote the FDNY operational books do) However Im not going to shy away from, or not share with those who read these forums to learn, the experiences I have had as a fireman in Brooklyn, just to avoid offending someone.
Last edited by MattyJ; 03-25-2006 at 08:09 AM.
03-27-2006, 06:10 PM #43
Not sure if matty or any of the others touched on the reasons why we don't generally operate on peaked roofs. The first being life safety, the primary objective for trucks at private dwelling fires is search for life, members are committed to VES on the upper floors and laddering the building this uses the member that would normally be getting the roof. Also our safety, the roof of just about any house is the most neglected part and was designed to protect the contents of the house from the weather, not support several hundred pounds of firefighter. Additionally, cutting the roof of most peaked roof dwellings to vent the living space is a joke, many people if not most have plywood in the attic providing a floor for the lifetime of ****e they accumulate, so venting the roof in this situation is futile.
03-27-2006, 08:22 PM #44Additionally, cutting the roof of most peaked roof dwellings to vent the living space is a joke, many people if not most have plywood in the attic providing a floor for the lifetime of ****e they accumulate, so venting the roof in this situation is futile.
03-27-2006, 09:31 PM #45
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- Mar 2006
It seems that often times we tend to forget that not only do we vent to give more time to the victims that become trapped in fires but also to increase our visibility and reduce the heat and products of combustion that cause flashovers. We have steady seen the increase in us and flashovers since the 60's. 3 firemen have been lost so far this year to becoming lost and disoriented and running out of air. If we vent and clear these areas we further reduce the risk of this happening. I agree as well there is no need to vent all fires that we respond to but we need to be prepared in event that it is needed. I have often heard chiefs in our area that chastise the boys for taking windows due to damage. this is insane and only further complicates the issues we are confronted with and increases our inherant dangers. Horizontal venting does do a adequate job in many instances but it does not compare to the efficiency of vertical venting in a well seated fire that due to heat conditions keep the smoke pushing to the lower window sill. Not to mention that it is an outstanding tactic to control fire spread and give the engine crews time to make an efficient knock down and not getting steam and heat pushed back down on them. During the 60"s we had less protective equipment than today including air packs. as a method of making these environments adequate to make saves and protect the brothers was through adequate vent practices. Is working above a fire dangerous we all no that it is but 10 guys inside with high heat zeroe visibility and potential flash over situations is just as if not more so dangeous which can be seen by the amount lost and injured in these environments. It cost approximatly 600-800 dollars to repair a vent hole to me that is a cheap bill for the safety of us and the vicims. I have also seen a trend of exterior attacks taking place in certain areas due to safety concerns Should this be the manner in which we make the proffession safer? Is the fact that we have better equipment that allows us to take more heat give us the reason to take and push the envelope more? my view is it is there for us in case we are confronted with those instances but we should continue to aggressively attempt to eliminate them for the sake of our brothers. Thank you to all that have posted It has been of great help.
03-28-2006, 08:47 AM #46There is an abundance of three story, peaked roofs in my city, most of which have the “attic” as livable space."This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?
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