First Due Area Population?

[olddinosaur]

When calculating the population of the "first due" area- does one include that area in which the fire company/department responds as automatic aid as well as its municipality?

[gfpdwh]

Your first Due response area would not include any
Automatic Aid or Mutual Aid.

Good Luck
Bill

[FFFRED]

When calculating the population of the "first due" area- does one include that area in which the fire company/department responds as automatic aid as well as its municipality?

Are you asking First Alarm territory or First Due as in the first to arrive company?

[rfd599]

[QUOTE=gfpdwh]Your first Due response area would not include any
Automatic Aid or Mutual Aid.

I don't believe that this is entirely correct (sort of). Last year, we checked with the Help Desk and we actually received two different answers from two separate people. One stated that you could include their response area and one stated that you could not.

The person asked what auto-aid constituted and here is what was explained. If you provide auto aid to the next district, that means that you are coming on the initial response regardless of whether the other agency responds. This is a formal agreement between both towns and/or districts.

On page 3, paragraph 2, of the 2006 P.G. is where this population question is mentioned.

Your best bet would be to contact the Helpdesk at firegrants@dhs.gov. Keep a record of the response on file (either way) so that you have back up data in the event that you are audited.

Good luck and keep us posted with the response!

rfd599
www.IllinoisFireStore.com

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

First due population only includes your territory not any mutual aid. Same way you can't claim their 4+ story buildings as yours. Some learned the last part the hard way as they cancelled their aerial order.

[rfd599]

First due population only includes your territory not any mutual aid. Same way you can't claim their 4+ story buildings as yours. Some learned the last part the hard way as they cancelled their aerial order.

Brian, I would agree that this does not include mutual aid, but auto aid is a slightly different animal and I would e-mail DHS for clarification (unless you already have this year) to verify.

Again, last year we had two different responses from (2) different help desk providers regarding this issue.

Good luck!

rfd599
www.IllinoisFireStore.com

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

I realize that auto M/A is a different animal, but it still doesn't mean you count those areas as first-due because they can't be. Even on auto-M/A you can't call an area that you don't collect taxes or donations from. Say you and I are neighbors in two town, I protect A, you protect B. On a house fire in B you are sending your engine and ladder, I'm sending my engine. I am SECOND due engine on that house fire because it's YOUR area. Even if I don't have a ladder truck and yours is coming to A for my fire, you may be the 1st due ladder, but you're the 2nd due department.

Here are other things you will hear if you call Helpdesk enough:

- Tactical EMS Equipment is eligible
- What Fire Prevention program?
- You have to send all of your money back when you bought everything, no extra spending if you saved money
- DUNS numbers are not required

Point being that Helpdesk is not the authority, the FPSs are. Helpdesk is there for technical support. They have not been given the same opportunity to learn what the program entails, or its minor details. They're dedicated folks, but many just haven't been taught what is going on.

Also from the PG: In the application, the host organization will be required to provide the characteristics of the entire region that will be affected by the project (i.e., the population of the affected region – not the applicant’s first-due population).

Since a region can be any size you want, including just two departments on auto M/A, they differentiate between the region and the first-due.

Trust me here my friend, they do not take kindly to attempts to artificially inflate computer scores by increased the size/population of your area which is how this whole clarification came about way back when, somewhere around 2002's program when someone tried to pull off that they were on auto M/A with the whole county so they can count that square mileage and population. Awards have been and will be taken away.

[olddinosaur]

"Official" word from the Helpdesk- Automatic aid territory does not count. No need to jeopardize an application by putting in the wrong numbers, no matter how honest the mistake may be.
Thanks for all of your input!