1. #1
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    Default Whats so great about an aerialscope?

    We are looking at 95/100 mid mount platforms... What makes an aerialscope so desirable?

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    The box boom design is indestructable.
    FTM - PTB

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    I'll bite.... The stabilizers are beat by only E-One. The corner jacks go straight down, and the center outriggers pivot to the ground, requiring only space between one set of cars for a complete/normal setup in a tight borough like ours. Of course, with an E-One, the next part goes out the window... The platforms rated 1000 pound capacity is a joke. I have seen ours hold 2000 (actually very recently). The are VERY maneuverable while flowing water and are awesome firefighting tools. An Aerialscope is indestructable. You can push out windows with any aerial. You can take the entire wall with an Aerialscope. The platforms are amongst the most friendly to use to cut a roof hole there are - you dont have to leave the safety of the catwalk....

    Unfortunately, Aerialscopes are expensive to buy new. Thats why we refurbed ours....

    Jon

    Edited to add: Recently somebody reffered to a Metz bucket as a shopping cart. I agree. The aerialscope is not that much bigger, but much more user friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chtucker
    We are looking at 95/100 mid mount platforms... What makes an aerialscope so desirable?
    The F.D.N.Y. has been using Mack/Aerialscopes since 1964 before the baker company started building them,they are one of the strongest towers ever to be built.The single joy stick control in the bucket is very easy to operate , the only draw back is the ladder design & the large price tag $$$$... If you purchase a scope you can have it remounted & refurbished over & over , you can't kill a " Aerialscope " !!!!....

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    I know you looked into it.....How much? A new Sutphen 100 mid platform is 850-900k?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefeng7
    I have seen ours hold 2000 (actually very recently).
    Edited to add: Recently somebody reffered to a Metz bucket as a shopping cart. I agree. The aerialscope is not that much bigger, but much more user friendly.
    I'd love to see how you fit that much weight in that little bucket.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chtucker
    I know you looked into it.....How much? A new Sutphen 100 mid platform is 850-900k?
    A new 95' Aerialscope costs $ 950,000 - $ 975,000 last year , maybe more in 2006!!... A new E- One HP 95 midmount tower $ 850,000 , ALF 93' midmount $ 775,000 , KME 100' midmount $ 810,000.
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 03-29-2006 at 06:46 PM.

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    Does the aerialscope meet NFPA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII
    A new 95' Aerialscope costs $ 950,000 - $ 975,000 last year , maybe more in 2006!!... A new E- One HP 95 midmount tower $ 850,000 , ALF 93' midmount $ 775,000 , KME 100' midmount $ 810,000.

    You get what you pay for!

    I have to agree with Jon (since we're in the same company) that it's hard to beat a scope. I was "driving" the scope recently at it's first big fire since the refurb. It still amazes me how you can move the nozzle in any direction without affecting the bucket.

    I also used it a few years ago in another township's fire where after we knocked down the 2nd floor fire we grounded the scope and drove it right into the first floor through the front door NY style. I don't think there are too many other aerials that you can do that with.

    The only downfall that I have seen is the recycling time for rescue. It's really not made to have civilians go down the escape ladder.
    Steve Dragon
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    Quote Originally Posted by chtucker
    Does the aerialscope meet NFPA?
    Yes. If you're reffering to the lack of a full ladder, its not a requirement of platform apparatus. Look at the snorkels, they don't even have the escape ladder. Mount Vernon NY just got their Scope last fall with no escape ladder. FDNY SOG's suggest rappelling before climbing down the escape ladder! When we bid our tower we told Scope to keep the ladder off to be a little more preice concious, it didn't help. We could've got a bare bones Aerialscope on a Seagrave chassis for about $850K. Instead we went witha well outfitted ALF for $775K. Its being built with a fall deliery expected.

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    Sorry double post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonfyre
    You get what you pay for!.

    E-One and KME Towers come with their own mechanic, and they will pay the general contracting fees to build a 1 bedroom apartment for the mechanic onto your firehouse!
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 03-30-2006 at 06:36 AM.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    I'd love to see how you fit that much weight in that little bucket.
    You obviuosly don't use one do you? :-D

    Seriously, it was during an aerial test with weights, not people. BUT it is not uncommon to see 6 firefighters pushed into there at over 200 apiece.... not quite 2 grand in people weight but it IS a lot....

    At some point you have to ask yourself what the weakest link is... if you overload it TOO much, what is going to give? In case anybody's curious its the leveling cylinders for the bucket leveling system.... they operate on a maximum of 2200PSI (or so) and applied over about 24 square inches between the two cylinders.... you are looking at about 52,000 pound of counter-force against the bucket... with its unibody design that much weight would probably crinkle the buckets frame before anything would snap.... the pins that hold the cylinders in are VERY thick and the backets are large, thick, and welded....

    Makes ya wonder about the couple times FDNY sheared the buckets right off... NOT good times.


    Jon

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    You obviuosly don't use one do you?
    No, the ones in this area have been replaced with tower ladders. Something about being able to get guys (and victims) up and down from the bucket...

    I always thought this "option" was a nice feature over the straight snorkle (aerialscope)...
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    From speaking with shops personnel, no FDNY buckets have been "ripped off" from being overloaded, they have been ripped off by collapsing parapits, but for the amount of use the amount of incidents has been miniscule.

    As for some of the benefits of the Aerialscope the biggest benefit in my mind is the bucket itself, with the single joystick control large catwalk, and full opening doors (in both directions) clear of that stupid limbo bar that many mfgrs use on their buckets.

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    Now would you buy a Seagrave knowing that there are not very many in your area (if at all?)

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    JfTL14-
    Not that its the same thing, but our new ALF tower has a large amount of catwalk on three sides, hand-stick controlled gun, and full hieght openin doors (inswing, some others swing out, how stupid is that?). And while we didn't opt for it, ALF will install a single "aerialscope" joystick in the bucket. Saw this on Waterbury, CT's new Tower 2.

    The one that I can't understand is the Peirce "Dumpster" bucket. You know that monster thing with not catwalk at all? What's the point? I'd defineately prefer soemthing with the lip edge to work from.

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    Our Department just placed in service one of those peirce (Dumpster Buckets) and has ordered another one with no cat walk, what do we know as the operators of this truck (SCOPE). We had a Baker aerial scope $$$$$$$$$$$$ was the reason we did not replace it with another one.

    For the operation they are the work horse of the fire service from setting the outriggers out, to the operation of the bucket, the fire knock down power is great and it allows you to operate as previously metioned from ground level FDNY style. Our peirece and ALF towers have had outrigger problems working from this position. Never once had an outrigger light, alarm, or overload problem with our aerial scope. Yes they are expensive but the money you spend now on a SCOPE, will save you in the long run with *****E, **F & **E. STAY SAFE.

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    You could have had that Scope refurbed and remounted on a new chassis for around 500k.
    FTM - PTB

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    You are correct, we the Officers, and Firefighters know that, even the apparatus group could not convince the higher up's this is the way to go. One big reason is our Chiefs want pumps on our ladders which really jacked the price up on the aerial scope. So with that we have ALF's. and periece tower ladders, Periece straight sticks quints with extrication equipment. STAY SAFE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chtucker
    Does the aerialscope meet NFPA?
    The Aerialscope brochure we recieved from Seagrave Fire Apparatus lists the boom ladder compliant with NFPA ,and a available folding handrail. Platform capacity 1,000 lbs while flowing 1,500 GPM at any boom angle !...

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    Ran with an ex-FDNY 75' Aerialscope in Vermont for about 10 years, the replaced it with a 95' Stuphen. We were actually the 3rd owners of the Aerialscope, as it was originally bought from NY by the city next to us, who ran it for about 7 years, until they replaced it with something longer. We thought about another aerialscope, but the price was just too high, plus there were concerns about the lack of a user firendly escape system.

    Tough as nails. Reliable. Stable. Lots of advantages to it. We never used it on ground level "FDNY style" as we felt that what apparatus deck guns and ground-level master streams were for. It served the purpose but the new buildings it town dictated a longer aerial, so we replaced it and yes, sold it to it's 4th owner, a rural department about 50 miles northeast of us. Ten Bucks says it will still be running with them in 10 years.

    That being said, I found the Stuphen aerial to be just as sturdy and stable, and liked the outrigger/support system even more than the Mack's. Bucket was bigger and allowed for the mounting of more tools, and liked the twin master stream system as well. Obviously the escape system on the Stuphen much better as well (we purchased the high rail option).
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-11-2006 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    Ran with an ex-FDNY 75' Aerialscope in Vermont for about 10 years, the replaced it with a 95' Stuphen. We were actually the 3rd owners of the Aerialscope, as it was originally bought from NY by the city next to us, who ran it for about 7 years, until they replaced it with something longer. We thought about another aerialscope, but the price was just too high, plus there were concerns about the lack of a user firendly escape system.

    Tough as nails. Reliable. Stable. Lots of advantages to it. We never used it on ground level "FDNY style" as we felt that what apparatus deck guns and ground-level master streams were for. It served the purpose but the new buildings it town dictated a longer aerial, so we replaced it and yes, sold it to it's 4th owner, a rural department about 50 miles northeast of us. Ten Bucks says it will still be running with them in 10 years.

    That being said, I found the Stuphen aerial to be just as sturdy and stable, and liked the outrigger/support system even more than the Mack's. Bucket was bigger and allowed for the mounting of more tools, and liked the twin master stream system as well. Obviously the escape system on the Stuphen much better as well (we purchased the high rail option).
    Our Mack/Aerialscope is over 32 years old and still operates like a clock , we are in the planning stages of doing a Aerialscope Re-chassis ,new body etc. The truck was rebuilt in 1985 by " Baker " and we could most likely get 20 - 25 more years out of this tough as nails tower ladder . How many trucks other than a scope have been rebuilt over & over again ! ... you can't kill a "Scope".

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    I got a 75' 1963 Snorkle that was rechassised once and is a second due piece. Why do you have to keep having the Aerialscope rebuilt so many times?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    I got a 75' 1963 Snorkle that was rechassised once and is a second due piece. Why do you have to keep having the Aerialscope rebuilt so many times?
    We are not rebuilding the Aerialscope boom & platform , just replacing the 32 year old Mack CF canopy cab with a new 4- door cab & chassis , body , and paint .The boom will have new hydro hoses replaced at the same time as the re-chassis, a new body must be installed because of the change from single axle to a tandem axle due to the total GVW of the vehicle! you can't build a Aerialscope on a single axle any more , you need a 44,000 - 58,000 lb rear.
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 04-12-2006 at 06:45 PM.

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