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  1. #1
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    Default burst hose replacement

    For a charge attack line (1 1/2") ......... what is your preffered/SOP method for replacing a burst 50' section, WITHOUT a hose clamp?


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    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    umm, I might be in the minority here, but I would shut down the line, disconnect the burst section, and put a new piece in it's place off of the hose bed.

    or I would just have another crew pull a second line.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    MembersZone Subscriber sdff1520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandlifesaver
    For a charge attack line (1 1/2") ......... what is your preffered/SOP method for replacing a burst 50' section, WITHOUT a hose clamp?
    Our normal procedure is the when replacing a section of burst hose the line is shut down OR clamped and TWO (2) sections of hose are fetched from the apparatus. Very often when removing the burst section it is difficult to get the new section to fit, the two ends retreat a little when disconnected, and we have some sections that used to be 50 ft but now may be 10 to 15 foot shorter do to coupling replacement etc... Pretty tought to get a 35 footer to fill a 50ft gap...try as you might.
    Rick Gustad - Chief
    Platte Volunteer Fire Department
    www.plattevfd.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdff1520
    Our normal procedure is the when replacing a section of burst hose the line is shut down OR clamped and TWO (2) sections of hose are fetched from the apparatus. Very often when removing the burst section it is difficult to get the new section to fit, the two ends retreat a little when disconnected, and we have some sections that used to be 50 ft but now may be 10 to 15 foot shorter do to coupling replacement etc... Pretty tought to get a 35 footer to fill a 50ft gap...try as you might.
    Exactly! Of course we dont duffy our attack lines but the point is, you need 2 lengths to replace 1 burst length. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    What is this?

    How is it you have lengths of hose that vary from 30 to 50 ft? How do you properly estimate your stretches if your hose lengths are non standard?

    Even if you use preconencted lengths...is that preconnect now 170 ft or 210 feet? Big difference if the fire room is 186 feet away!

    Every length in my dept is within inches of each other. 50ft. Never seen one off by any more than that. 10-20 feet difference? You guys should pull all non-standard lengths and replace them.

    FTM-PTB

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    I agree. But, I have used burst hose lengths to make 3' to 6' lengths to leave at the beginning of my preconnects. That way, when replacing the preconnect, I'm not squeezing my hand into the small opening to unthread the connection, I leave the short length there and connect to it.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    MembersZone Subscriber sdff1520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    What is this?

    How is it you have lengths of hose that vary from 30 to 50 ft? How do you properly estimate your stretches if your hose lengths are non standard?

    Even if you use preconencted lengths...is that preconnect now 170 ft or 210 feet? Big difference if the fire room is 186 feet away!

    Every length in my dept is within inches of each other. 50ft. Never seen one off by any more than that. 10-20 feet difference? You guys should pull all non-standard lengths and replace them.

    FTM-PTB
    Would love to pull all non-standard lengths from service and replace them. Don't have any $$$ to do that with. Most lines are not short, just a few. And we estimate needed length the same way anybody else would - best guess, looks to be about so far..., grab that many sections plus a couple in case the guess is wrong. We make every effort to keep all our pre-connects stocked with new (full-length) hose, however depending on recent call history and usage that may not be possible if the hose is in process of being washed, dried, inspected and restocked....

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    so, based on line shut down, but still having lots of deadweight water in the line (perhaps there are 2 more 50' sections in front of it before the nozzle), what method of uncoupling (no wrenches available) would you use for the hose? Two fold method?

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    Forum Member benlewis60's Avatar
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    whatever way gets the sum'b*tch done.

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    two methods.
    bend the last 20 ft back on itself 2 or 3 times, kneeling on it, creating a shutoff,(if communication with the engineer is not practical) and then replace WITH 2 LENGTHS, or have the next in company lay another preconnect.

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    I can appreciate what you are saying about standard 50' lenghts, but, when you are sending a length in for repair with a hole 3 feet from the end in a large department that is considering reducing its manpower, I'm afraid you might wind up with much shorter than 50.
    Think about what this means with a 2 1/2 length. It's required to have 100' for proper foam production in our type of system!!
    Unfortunately it's money as the bottom line.

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    We shut it off, dc, and fill it in w/ a new section.

    OH, and if we have a hole in our line, or it's badly damaged, we toss it. I can't imagine cutting 15 feet off a hose and still having it on your rig. The amount of problems that would induce is almost infinite.
    "The more we sweat in training, the less we bleed in battle."

  13. #13
    Forum Member THEFIRENUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandlifesaver
    For a charge attack line (1 1/2") ......... what is your preffered/SOP method for replacing a burst 50' section, WITHOUT a hose clamp?
    For hose bursts....If you can't afford a hose clamp, you have two choices. You can either shut down the line or fold it over on itself to cut off the water flow. (Annual hose testing can greatly reduce this occurrence.)

    On the subject of different hose lenghts....If you "Have" to have different hose lengths, I would suggest marking them in some way. That way you won't run into the problem of swapping out hose sections that don't match.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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    You don't.

    1) The attack team is coming out anyways. What are they going to do, squat there for several minutes while a couple guys screw around trying to replace the section? And if you have the manpower to replace the section...WHY WASN'T A BACKUP LINE FLAKED OUT ALREADY?

    2) Ideally, there is a backup line pulled, laid out, AND MANNED already. They simply take over.

    3) If the line isn't manned, hopefully one extra guy got the line pulled and laid out waiting for extra manpower to form the backup team.

    4) If there's no extra manpower, there's no one to fix the hose anyway. Attack crew comes out, grabs another line, and goes back to work.

    Maybe if we're talking about a 600' long 2.5" going up, around, and through 3 stories, maybe we'd talk about replacing the length being quicker.

    The only time I could see spending time to replace a burst length is on forestry operations where you maybe hundreds if not thousands of feet into the woods with a single jacket, unlined 1.5" that bends easily. Then bend it several times (big folds, like 2.5' to 3' seem to work better...leverage while folding!) and hump the other end back if there's no hose handy to replace the section.
    Last edited by Dalmatian190; 03-31-2006 at 07:56 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Burst line

    Dalmation is right, your better off pulling another line, its quicker.

    On long lays of small diameter lines, most failures are a section or two from the nozzle, so consider removing the nozzle and attaching it to the hose behind the burst section. The replacement sections can be added outside at the truck. No need to try and replace inside in a bad environment when the hose is already outside on the truck.

    For long lays of heavy hoses such as LDH, shut down the line, and replace with a section or sections longer than what was removed. This is where your short sections will be useful.

    Just an FYI, most hoses are shorter than their requested length. NFPA allows -2/+3% on all sections, measured under slight pressure.

    Don't believe me? Go out and measure them, and I promise most if not all will be shorter than the assumed length.

    Also, when charged, hoses can elongate up to 8%.

    That means that if we had a true 100' section, the charged length could be 108 feet. Removing that section will leave a similar gap, and trying to replace it with an uncharged 100 footer is close to impossible.

    As someone mentioned, annual testing should alleviate this problem. Its amazing why some departments drag worn out hoses into a fire, as their primary lifeline.

    JT

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