1. #26

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    Last edited by jacklrd; 05-07-2007 at 04:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCFPD View Post
    i didnt start really arguing until i was called names like idiot, moron, and was told im a child thats playing firefighter.
    Really?

    Here's part of your very first post here on FH.com:

    what you idiots from these fulltime departments like you chicago, you all think your better than everyone else,
    ....
    then you need a reality check and you need to think again,
    ....
    all that means is he had bigger balls than you did when you were 14
    And from your second ever post:

    we deal with stuff that would make some of your full timers lose control of their bowels.
    You managed not to be overly offensive in your third post but the forth was right back on target:

    This argument has no basis to it, i am on a full vollie department with 32 members, half of which are worthless and dont show up to anything,
    And your fifth:

    You all need to listen to this and stop blabbering nonsence unless you were once a junior firefighter,

    and i would trust that 16 year old to have my back in any fire more than i would several of the 30 year old bums iv ran into in my 4 year tenure with the fire service.

    besides, dont be so stupid
    I don't know about anybody else, but I'm thinking that recruiter didn't have to twist your arm too hard to get you to lie on your Guard application...
    Last edited by DeputyMarshal; 05-07-2007 at 04:20 PM.
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    Did i say he twisted my arm at all? did i even attempt to blame the recruiter?
    I do believe i said I did the lying on my ENLISTMENT papers.

    I see nothing wrong with the 4th and 5th post, as far as i can tell, the real stuff that could be considered mean and degrading was the first and second.
    When i talk about the 30 and 40 year old bums i am telling the truth and i tell them that to their face at our very own firehouse. guys that during training sit off to the side sipping down a pop while smoking a cigarette, or guys that on a firescene pull a hose off the truck then stand around the rest of the call and admire the pretty colors coming out of the roof. or the guys that since they dont listen during training pull up to a scene in a truck and leave the damn thing in nuetral so it can roll down a hill toward another apartment building. I have no respect for people that refuse to put forth the effort required by the fire service. that is why i say there is alot of juniors that are worth more than alot of the older guys. I did not say all i said alot.

    As far as that first and second post goes, what can i say, i shouldnt have said it, it was wrong, the part im most embarrased about is the loosing the bowels, but damnit i was ****ed when i made that post. and i did apologize and try to set things right, but people wanted to continue to insult me and degrade me so i said screw it im not going to try to clean up my image with these guys anymore. and now we are to this point in time here, where iv explained my side and you have all explained yours and it is obvious we will never aggree on anything. perhaps we can aggree to disaggree?

    O and deputy, i noticed you convieniently left out what was after the word stupid, so ill finish the sentance right here for all to see.

    Besides, dont be so stupid, they are called Junior FIREFIGHTERS. it is right in their name. that is something really close to what was said in that sentance.
    Last edited by JeremyCFPD; 05-07-2007 at 04:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCFPD View Post
    Bones i read your comments and my stomach hurts im laughing so hard, By your logic, a firefighter that dies at a residential house fire does not deserve to be on the same fallen firefighters memorial as the FDNY from the WTC are on? by that logic of yours, there will not be another name put on that memorial until theres (god forbid) another national tragedy in which a firefighter leaves us.

    You are a Joke bones, a very funny one at that.
    No clue how you came to that conclusion. A firefighter that dies at a residential fire is the same as a firefighter that died at the WTC and also the same as a firefighter that dies in California at a brush fire. They are all firefighters.

    A person, not yet trained as a firefighter, but helping on the fireground with air supplies, rehab, traffic, etc is not a firefighter and would not be considered the equal to the others.

    I have absolutely no idea where you came up with your interpretation of my post.

    And you don't make me laugh at all. Actually, you scare me.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I come to that conclusion due to the fact that in several of your posts your always commenting on how juniors do not deserve to have their names next to firefighters. to me, that is a statement that is worthy of sitting next to my statement about fellow firefighters losing their bowels.

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    I guess its just me, but I don't see the relation of bowels and jrs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacklrd View Post
    I guess its just me, but I don't see the relation of bowels and jrs.

    I do.. Diapers!


    Actually a troll is a big heavy ugly looking thing, i sir, am 5'2 and wiegh 140 lbs as well as shower daily.
    Now I see where Jeremy's coming from.. small man syndrome strikes again!

    They should call you "yardstick"....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  8. #33
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    One of my Drill sgts called me ShortRound all the time...its demoralizing.......im scarred for life.....

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCFPD View Post
    I come to that conclusion due to the fact that in several of your posts your always commenting on how juniors do not deserve to have their names next to firefighters. to me, that is a statement that is worthy of sitting next to my statement about fellow firefighters losing their bowels.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCFPD View Post
    By your logic, a firefighter that dies at a residential house fire does not deserve to be on the same fallen firefighters memorial as the FDNY from the WTC are on?
    Uh, yah, I see the same thing.


    they are called Junior FIREFIGHTERS
    Yes, see how they are not called FIREFIGHTERS. They are called something else.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCFPD View Post
    One of my Drill sgts called me ShortRound all the time...its demoralizing.......im scarred for life.....
    Puhleeze, dude. You were probably ELS'd while you were still a friggin Rainbow. Attitude like yours, there's no fuggin way you made it through BCT. I'm thinking your discharge reads: "Failure to adapt to military lifestyle." Probably didn't even give you the chance to recycle...I can see you bein labeled unfit as soon as your mangy carcass stepped off the bus.

    Being a fraudulent enlistee (and technically a federal felon, as well) isn't exactly a great "claim to fame", genius.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCFPD View Post
    One of my Drill sgts called me ShortRound all the time...its demoralizing.......im scarred for life.....
    I see your "Career Disapation Light coming on". I do not think you will be here for very much longer the way you talk to your BETTERS.

    T.J.

  12. #37
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    I think that they need to go with a mandatory National Standard as a Firefighter. This will clear any of the "issues" that now exist by spelling it out in black and white. If you do not hold this certificate you are not considered a firefighter. If you do not hold this certificate and you die during firefighting activities your Fire Chief goes to jail. This would take any of the guess work out the the situation.

    And Yes, Chris Kangas death although tragic was not in the line of duty. Even considering it as such relegates firefighting on both the career and volunteer level.
    Last edited by FDAIC485; 05-08-2007 at 11:22 AM.
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  13. #38
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    Bones- I have a few comments for you. Not trying to stir anything new up, but you say that juniors and explorers arent members because they dont get to go into burning buildngs. Well i believe that any firefighter that enters a burning building must have their introductory. Which means any probationary fireman on our department isnt a "member". I doubt that! Just because they cant enter the structure, they dont have a key to get into the department, they dont have all the privlages that voted on firemen do, and they dont get to carry a badge. But despite all of these things, they still count as a true fireman. So explain to me, how would you take benefits away from probies???
    Last edited by hfdexplorer; 05-10-2007 at 09:49 AM.
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    Actually, hfdexplorer, you are correct. Until they are trained and certified (whether they are an Explorer/Junior/Probationary member) they aren't a firefighter. They are an Explorer/Junior/Probationary member.

    It's that simple.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    hfdexplorer, your own post illustrates how they aren't "real" firefighters yet. They don't have all the training, rights, and privelages of firefighters. Their scope of practice, to borrow an EMS term here, is extremely limited.

    If I started EMT class last week, can I call myself a paramedic, because that's where I plan on ending up. No. Likewise, if I just started a basic firefighting class last week, how can I call myself a firefighter.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCFPD View Post
    By your logic, a firefighter that dies at a residential house fire does not deserve to be on the same fallen firefighters memorial as the FDNY from the WTC are on?
    Exactly.

    If a memorial is for firefighters who died at the World Trade Center, then you're damn right no one else should be on there.

    If a memorial is for firefighters, than someone who is not a firefighter should not be on there.

    If a memorial is for juniors/explorers who died performing their duties, than a firefighter should not be on there.

    I personally do not understand the mother of this boy wanting financial LODD benefits after she was denied her son's name on a memorial for firefighters. Death benefits are to help those who were financially dependent on the person who died - a teenager is financially dependent on his/her parents, not vice-versa. If what she's really upset about is that he is not being memorialized, then why not try to get a special memorial for him that memorializes his service as a junior firefighter (not one of the firefighters, but serving in his own way) - why go for the money?
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    baileydonk, according to all articles that I have seen, his mother has consistently said she was not doing this for the money, but for his name to be on the monument.

    I said this before (on one of the 6 or 7 threads about this) - if everyone chipped in $10 they could pay for an Explorer/Junior/Cadet/etc monument to be placed right next to the NFF memorial.

    and this whole arguement/discussion would be done.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    baileydonk, according to all articles that I have seen, his mother has consistently said she was not doing this for the money, but for his name to be on the monument.

    I said this before (on one of the 6 or 7 threads about this) - if everyone chipped in $10 they could pay for an Explorer/Junior/Cadet/etc monument to be placed right next to the NFF memorial.

    and this whole arguement/discussion would be done.
    Nice sentiment, but do we really want to be building memorials for the children we plan on killing on the fireground in the future? If we can learn anything from all of this maybe it should be a foundation dedicated to cyclist safety

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Actually, hfdexplorer, you are correct. Until they are trained and certified (whether they are an Explorer/Junior/Probationary member) they aren't a firefighter. They are an Explorer/Junior/Probationary member.

    It's that simple.

    So if a probie collapsed over and died on the scene of a brush fire, you believe he shouldnt recieve any benefits? I dont think that is right! They are a firefighter, there official term is a "probationary firefighter". Just explain to me how you came up with this, because i am questioning your logic right now. Maybe im mistaken, or reading it wrong, but i dont understand.
    My views, are my views and do not give the views of any orginization i belong to.

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    No, you read it right. They should not receive the Federal PSOB and should not be on the National Fallen Fire Fighters memorial.

    "probationary firefighter"
    Note how it does not say firefighter, it says probationary firefighter. There is a difference.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Now I think this thread is going to semantics of words. Probationary means completely different things per each department. I could have my fire II cert, but am probationary for one year just because I am new to the department. Or it is up to the chief's discretion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazmat91180 View Post
    Now I think this thread is going to semantics of words. Probationary means completely different things per each department. I could have my fire II cert, but am probationary for one year just because I am new to the department. Or it is up to the chief's discretion.
    Bro, it's all semantics. the argument (and yes, it has boiled down to an argument) is all semantics: what defines a firefighter? for example:

    over 18 vs under 18? and over 21 vs under 21?

    do they recieve a paycheck or not?

    do they respond to alarms in a motor vehicle, or do they run or ride a bicycle?

    do they have the proper firefighter training? or not? what is the paper training? Firefighter 1? firefighter 2, hazmat ops, MVC extrication, etc?
    are they off probation yet? even if they are certified as a career FF, if they are on probation, does that count?

    are they interiorly qualified? were they ever interiorly qualified? are they medically cleared to become interiorly qualified?

    do fire police qualify?

    do older members who pass on scenes while participating in non-suppressions roles count?

    traumatic deaths while actively suppressing the fire vs cardiac deaths from being out of shape?

    among numerous other variables..

    paid, volunteer, young, old, everyone has a different take on the situation, all based on their experiences. and it's an argument that won't be ending anytime soon.
    Last edited by DrParasite; 05-11-2007 at 10:16 PM. Reason: additional spaces for clarity
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    No, you read it right. They should not receive the Federal PSOB and should not be on the National Fallen Fire Fighters memorial.

    Note how it does not say firefighter, it says probationary firefighter. There is a difference.
    Bones, not that I entirely disagree with you, but there are differences. On my job, recruits earn FF1,2, Hazmat Ops, Nims, Safety and Survival, Flashover, Confined Space Rescue, Basic Rope Rescue, MRT(First Respoder), and a few other Certs I can't remember, while in the academy. They come out fully trained Probationary FF's, and remain a Probie for one year. They are expected to know the basics and be able to perform immediately. The probationary period is to make sure they know their stuff, have a good work ethic, and are a good fit with the dept. They are out there doing the job the day after graduation. They are FF's. Now, on a few combo departments here, they are called probies upon being voted in for membership, and are considered a probie until they receive the necessary training. They are not allowed to do the job until they receive the required training. They are not yet considered FF's. Like I said, I don't entirely disagree with you, but I believe there is a difference in how the term "Probationary FF" is used, and how they are viewed.

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    This whole debate is getting just plain silly. Chris was not responding to an alarm, period. He was not functioning in the line of duty. That is where the difference is, despite the fact that Chris should not have been responding to any type of an alarm, other than his school bell.

    If a probationary firefighter is operating at an alarm, and while operating at said alarm is killed, that would be a line of duty death, and should be honored as such.
    There is a huge difference between a ‘probationary’ firefighter, and a junior. A probationary is typically someone new to a job who has less than a year or so on.

    15 years ago we had a recruit killed while in the academy; this persons name was never submitted to the memorial because their death wasn’t considered a line-of-duty death.

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