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  1. #61
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by st42stephenAFT View Post
    That includes when a member has been through Firefighter I, graduated, and is placed on his 6 month, or 1 year probation?
    Graduated FF1. They are a fire fighter. They are on a probationary period where we (not the instructors) evalutate their skills and update them on our tactics. But they are a fire fighter.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?


  2. #62
    Forum Member Bvfa23's Avatar
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    why cant you just accept that juniors are firemen to .......... so what if all the juniors quit ... are you going to get on top of the truck at 3 am to get a broom for a MVA ... and it seems to me that your saying a regular brand new fireman over 18 that does not have their FF1 can get LODD benifits but a junior with a few years experince is not good enough
    These opinions are mine and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.

  3. #63
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    why cant you just accept that juniors are firemen to .......... so what if all the juniors quit ... are you going to get on top of the truck at 3 am to get a broom for a MVA ... and it seems to me that your saying a regular brand new fireman over 18 that does not have their FF1 can get LODD benifits but a junior with a few years experince is not good enough

    This makes no sense at all.

    Juniors are not firefighters.

    Up until just a couple of years ago, none of our firefighters ever took the firefighter certification tests, yet were far better trained than any level I, II, III certification requires.

  4. #64
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    Calling a pile of s**t a rose doesn't make it a rose

    Calling a kid a jr firefighter doesn't make him a firefighter.

    The feds run the program and they get to make the rules and definitions since a lot of departments can't get it right.

    KIDS ARE NOT FIREFIGHTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

  5. #65
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bvfa23 View Post
    why cant you just accept that juniors are firemen to .......... so what if all the juniors quit ... are you going to get on top of the truck at 3 am to get a broom for a MVA ... and it seems to me that your saying a regular brand new fireman over 18 that does not have their FF1 can get LODD benifits but a junior with a few years experince is not good enough
    listen kid. I happen to think that juniors should be considered firemen under certain circumstances. that is my personal belief, and primarily relates to LODD, at least under certain circumstances.

    however, don't think for an instant that a junior firefigher is the same as a certified, non-probationary adult firefighter. VERY big difference.

    also, to answer your question, at 3am at the MVA, yes, an interior firefighter will be climbing on top of a truck to get the broom. juniors are nice to have, but if they all quit tomorrow, oh well, all it means is the little grunt work would have to be done by the probie or a senior firefighter. but it will still get done.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  6. #66
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bvfa23 View Post
    why cant you just accept that juniors are firemen to
    Because they aren't?
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  7. #67
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    Seriously don't any of you have anything better to do than argue about this stupid topic thats been discussed 151251365176137697132096713096 70 times before, what does it matter to anyone else across the country anyway if some one wants to call jr. firefighters firefighters then let them, how will it effect you???

  8. #68
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBLOC06 View Post
    Seriously don't any of you have anything better to do than argue about this stupid topic .... how will it effect you???
    Yes, it is a stupid topic. Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of so-called "junior firefighters" out there who don't seem to be able to grasp that they aren't firefighters.

    How does that effect us? Many of us are firefighters -- we've earned the title and we tend to be a bit protective of it.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by YBLOC06 View Post
    Seriously don't any of you have anything better to do than argue about this stupid topic thats been discussed 151251365176137697132096713096 70 times before, what does it matter to anyone else across the country anyway if some one wants to call jr. firefighters firefighters then let them, how will it effect you???
    Because on my Federal Form IRS 1040 it says firefighter. I don't want every tax dollar that I earn going to a PSOB program for 14 y/o. I'll pay my taxes, I make a good living as firefighter, but I don't want my tax dollars WASTED on some BS PSOB program anymore than I want them wasted ag subsidies. Pretty soon we are going to be giving money to every deceased person because they wanted to be firefighters when they were 4. We fought hard to have PSOB programs for families of FIREFIGHTERS killed in the line of duty. Every time some ridiculous claim like the one filed by the Kangas family is promulgated through the court system, the entire program is jeopardized.

    The PSOB program is for firefighters and their families, not whackers - not wannabes.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bvfa23 View Post
    why cant you just accept that juniors are firemen to .......... so what if all the juniors quit ...
    Considering we don't have Juniors/Explorers in our department...I guess the same thing we've always been doing, eh?

    are you going to get on top of the truck at 3 am to get a broom for a MVA ...
    Nope, see, A) our broom is in the rear compartment, not topside, and B) Brooms are the tow-truck's job, not mine. Patient's extricated, packaged, and TOT to ambulance, my azz is outta there.

    and it seems to me that your saying a regular brand new fireman over 18 that does not have their FF1 can get LODD benifits but a junior with a few years experince is not good enough
    You gain wisdom, Young Glasshoppah. That is almost exactly what we're saying. Thanks for catching up to the herd.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  11. #71
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    Default How was Chris Kangas killed while "responding" to his station for a call?

    ["We were just sitting there getting ready to have a barbecue and we heard the sirens," said Messner, who has only been on the Brookhaven police force for one of his 12 years in the field. "He was asking me, 'Is that us, is that us?' Then he got on his bike. I told him to be careful, and that I'd put the hamburgers on."]

    Funny, wouldn't his pager have alerted him to a call for his dept.? Wait, Chris didn't have a pager. Strange that a firefighter on-call doesn't have a pager.


    [Kangas proceeded to pedal to the Brookhaven Police Station where he checked in with Officer Adam Brown who was on patrol Saturday.
    "He asked me if I knew the nature of the alarm," said Brown, who has been on the Brookhaven force for nearly three years. "When I told him I didn't know he just left.]

    I don't know about you, but I don't swing by the police station to find out about a call while I'm responding.

    [As it turns out, the fire call was not in Brookhaven at all.]

    Interesting, now what was he responding to?

    ["We got a call to be on stand-by for a house fire in Concordville," said Grant.]

    And Chris knew about the standby call?
    (these quotes are from http://www.firehouse.com/lodd/2002/pa_may5b.html)

    Before you say that Chris Kangas' death was a LODD let me give you a scenario:
    I'm outside working in my yard and here some sirens. For some reason I'm unusually curious and happen to not have my pager on me. I decide to drive down to the station to listen to the radioes not knowing if my dept has a run or not. I get in an MVA on the way to the station and get killed. As it turned out the sirens were actually from a neighboring dept responding to a call. My dept was put on standby for the neighboring dept but I didn't know that because I didn't have my pager on me.

    So now let me ask you these two questions:
    1. Me driving to my station because of my curiosity of the sirens I heard means I was responding?

    2. How can I be responding if I don't even know that my dept has a call?

    Bottom line, Chris was not responding because he didn't know that he even had a call. It's quite clear that he had no idea that his dept had a call because he asked his friend "Is that us?, is that us?". How is him riding his bike to the his station a LODD when he wasn't responding? If he knew that he had a run then it would be a different story. But the fact is that he wasn't responding. So quit calling it a LODD. He was a good kid and deserves to be remembered, but he doesn't deserve the benefits or his name on the memorial.

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