1. #1
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    Default NJ Paid Departments

    Okay. The civil service testing applications have finally been released. There are alot of places to apply, but most have residency rules. I live in a county with NO paid departments so I am looking at appartments in the cities I am trying to get on. My question is this...... How long do you have to live in an area before you have a shot at getting a job? I hear Jersey City requires you to live there for three years first. Clifton and Passaic say six months. Can someone enlighten me so I can make a wise choice. Why is it so hard for people like me who would honestly respect the job and never regret taking it to get on a department when some bum can walk off the street in a city, take the test, and get on when he has no idea what traditions he has just become apart of? How many paid guys have someone on their crew who is their just because "its a job"?

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    In, NJ (and other places), the fedral courts have answered this question:
    Why is it so hard for people like me who would honestly respect the job and never regret taking it to get on a department when some bum can walk off the street in a city, take the test, and get on when he has no idea what traditions he has just become apart of?
    You were born the wrong race in the wrong place. THJere is simply no other explanation.

    And that is not in any way a racist comment. It is a reality. If it is not, someone provide evidence to the contrary.

    There are thousands of kids like McAfee who live in rural areas and who work their asses off to learn to be a FF. Then, they find out that all of their hard work means little to nothing-at least in NJ. They need to born int he right place, be the right race or sex and then run the fastest in a race. That gets you on the job.

    McAfee, my advice to you is do not give up this dream. But, get a few more years under your belt and get the hell out of NJ. NJ is a sinking ship anyway. There is no future and there is no end in sight to the financial morass the politicians-Dems and Repubs alike-have put the State in. Look at FD's ni other states and prepare yourself for lower cost of livnig, higher quality of life and a future as a FF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Then, they find out that all of their hard work means little to nothing-at least in NJ. They need to born int he right place, be the right race or sex and then run the fastest in a race. That gets you on the job.
    Means nothing in NY either. Go down South, or out West.
    Chris Shields
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    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

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    Your right George. Its a shame that a person can be allowed to put so much time in and then be forced to leave. Are NJ certificates transferable to other states since NJ requires so much more then many other places.

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    truckie8, NJ's fire certs aren't transferrable to any other state, and the state doesn't accept anyone else's certs.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    I've been trying to ask some people about how the entire process works and have gotten some mixed answers. Now that the test is being released, I'll ask you felluhs.

    I go in, apply for the test. Go take the test and then am notified when to take a physical, and then following. What I'm confused about is eligability for particular fire departments. I currently live in the city of Trenton. Would I be eligible to be hired as a career firefighter in the smaller town of Ewing where I am currently a volunteer firefighter? Or am I just allowed to be eligable to Trenton? What about other departments in NJ? Am I on the list for all of them?

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    You gotta be in it to win it. Someone has to get those jobs, so why not you? If there is somewhre you want to work, and they have a residency requirement, then move there and do something else for a while. Work in their city, work as their dispatcher, whatever you can, but you get your foot in the door and try not to let it hold your life up.

    In truth, there are places there are easier to be hired. My suggestion is research some of that, but if you really like NJ, thats the way in.

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    Does anyone know what the residency restrictions are for Jersey City, Patterson, Clifton, and Passaic?

    I heard that to be on Clifton or Patterson you need to live in Clifton or Patterson for a full year before you are eligable for hire. Jersey City I hear is three years. I also heard that for Passaic, you just need to live somewhere in Passaic County. Any truth to this? Maybe someone who is already on?

    As for test taking.... The application dates are from May 1st to August 31st this year. After you file an App. you will be notified when and where to take the written test. If you pass, which anyone with a 7th grade education can (no offense), then you are notified when and where you can take the physical portion. Also, their is a non-cognitive team work portion the instructor will grade you on without your knowledge.

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    well its about damn time for the realease. im in the EXACT same boat as you man. nothing around here is paid in my district. the closest is Picatinny Arsenal which is a millitary base and thats federal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite
    truckie8, NJ's fire certs aren't transferrable to any other state, and the state doesn't accept anyone else's certs.
    Incorrect sir... at least it was about 7 years ago when I transferred my Virginia certs into NJ certs.

    But man George is (yyyuuuck) right. Unless you want to move to some of those places where rent for an dump(I mean apartment) is astronomical and probie pay is... well I guess you can call it pay? Even with moving, you still are up against the stupidest invention in the world....quotas. There is no hiring of the best candidate, there is the hiring of what makes are 'numbers' good.

    As for tranferring out, it varies by state. I know they do not transfer to NC as NC honors only IFSAC accredited certs.

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    I spoke to a paid firefighter in Montclair who told me that going federal is actually not a bad idea. There is a much better chance of getting hired, you get top of the line equipment and training, and huge benifits. The only kink in the system is that your pay is based off of the government directly, Homeland Security money goes up.... your the first group to get a pay raise, Homeland Security goes down, your the first to get hit. Of couse being able to work with top of the line equipment is worth it. And you have to realize that if they need you to transfer, you may be going cross country. Plus, something like Katrina could keep you occupied for a long time.

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    Truckie, someone is blowin smoke up your rear. The certs. you need for federal usaualy come from previous military experience, it is no walk in the park to get hired federal. And of the guys I know they don't realy brag about how great the pay or bennies are. Although they do enjoy the fact that they can get out after 20yrs. not 25. As far as the non-congitive part of the test being graded without you knowing it. That is a load as well, first off because you just stated you knew about it. Second of all they could not count it against your score if they did not tell you about it. I think some of the guys you are talking to are a little opinionated in their statements and you realy should get some of the info verified before you post it as fact. As stated above, you have to be in it to win it. If you don't like the test process, don't take it. I garuntee someone will be in line behind you.

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    As was mentioned, if you don't like the testing process, starting pay, or where you are required to live for your first year on the job as part of your probation go elsewhere...McAfee there are many guys on my job whose fathers, uncles, and grandfathers were members of the Jersey City Fire Department and are proud to carry on the family tradition. Often being issued the same badge number that person had when they retired. Many people would rather give the oppurtunity for the job to someone whose family has been here for generations then someone from the outside. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, that's the way it is. But, asking how many guys are there because "it's a job" is like asking how many guys are in a volunteer department for the beer.( I did time as a volunteer also so I know that side of the coin)....Politicians and taxpayers alike want people paid by their taxes to keep that tax money in the city it came from. There are bills that come up, but haven't been passed, giving extra points on promotional exams to residents to encourage staying in the city you work in. So if anyone anywhere wants to work someplace move there. That's the only way it will happen.
    Last edited by len1582; 03-31-2006 at 05:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEck51
    As far as the non-congitive part of the test being graded without you knowing it. That is a load as well, first off because you just stated you knew about it. Second of all they could not count it against your score if they did not tell you about it. I think some of the guys you are talking to are a little opinionated in their statements and you realy should get some of the info verified before you post it as fact. As stated above, you have to be in it to win it. If you don't like the test process, don't take it. I garuntee someone will be in line behind you.
    The non-cognitive portion is taken directly off the NJ DOP website in the FAQ and study guide. And I never said anything about not agreeing with the testing process, point of fact I think it is good that there is a physical portion and a team work score. Also, the team score does not count against your overall score, it is just a side note; occording to the DOP anyway. Being non-cognitive means that while you do know about it, the instructor will not tell you when the grading process starts. I am not saying I am right, just saying what I have heard and read.

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    good point len1582.... good point indeed.

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    George is absolutley correct.


    Move South, Check out North Charleston,SC they hire a lot and fight loads of fire. Pay is low but the cost of living is low also. I spent a year down there and kick my self in the rear every day for coming back ! Lot of good guys work there and there is a new head chief who I hear is pretty good.

    This is there site http://www.ncfd.org/.

    If you apply and are certed they will hire you. They hire a lot.



    Otherwise move into some overpriced crap hole in NJ and pray to get hired. I hear Irvington is gonna be hiring a bunch off of next list and not many from the city apply so you have good odds. Plus Asbury Park is going to be hiring a bunch also. Most places you can move out once you get picked up also.


    Chris
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    In 1995 I applied for the Jersey City Fire Department. I was living in Hoboken at the time. I went to the Jersey City Hall and applied. After I was done and turned it in the women looked at it and tore it up. She told me that I could not apply because I did not live in the city. I waited almost two years before I got hired in another department. I left college to take the job. I never went back to school. I KICK MYSELF IN THE ***** FOR NOT GOING BACK. (HINT HINT HINT)

    Unforunetly, residency rules in this state suck. How they still hold up is a mystery. I am willing to bet big money that more people take this next test then ever before.

    Good Luck
    This space for rent

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    Anyone Know what the process is for Atlantic City? Does the city do their own test or do they do that state thing? Hire frequently or only every couple years? Thanks.

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    Kyle...Why couldn't you go to college after getting on your job? I know many people who've gotten various degrees including Masters and Doctorates after getting hired. Also, why didn't you try the Hoboken FD if you lived there and met their residency requirement?
    How do residency rules hold up? One reason is because they indirectly pertain to racial goals to "reflect the true makeup of the city", that comes from the federal government. In Jersey City it started with my class in 1981, 25 years ago and is still going on. The last test open to non-residents was in the late '70s.

    danzig...Atlantic City does the state thing, probably every few years. Check their residency requirements.

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    Len, I did. I ended up getting hired else were before the process even moved. I was attending John Jay at the time with an internship with FDNY. When I got the call I took it.

    We work 10s and 14s and I don't know how to attend core classes with my schedule. I have almost every fire science class credit. I just need some core classes.

    I have noticed that NJ is almost the only state left with ridiculous requirements on residency. This state has more problems with civil service exams then I have ever seen. Just attending the monthly state FMBA meetings and hear Gorty get up and talk about the DOP was painful. How long did it take for the Battalion chiefs test to get fixed. All of the class action lawsuits. There are some serious flaws in the process. I love my job and am very lucky to have it. I feel bad for the people on the street waiting.

    Just look at what I saw yesterday also:

    Paterson is hiring fire alarm dispatchers. Pay- $18,500 to $22,000
    Who can take that?
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582
    ....Politicians and taxpayers alike want people paid by their taxes to keep that tax money in the city it came from.
    After reading that, it made sense to me. I can understand residency requirements looking at it from that angle. I figure the best thing to do at this point is stay where you are now if you live in a county with no paid departments, and take the test anyway. You will get put on a general list that is not specific to any city, maybe you will get hired. After the list goes active, move to the city of your choice. By the time the NEXT test comes in in 2008 or so.... you will have been there long enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582
    Kyle...Why couldn't you go to college after getting on your job? I know many people who've gotten various degrees including Masters and Doctorates after getting hired. Also, why didn't you try the Hoboken FD if you lived there and met their residency requirement?
    How do residency rules hold up? One reason is because they indirectly pertain to racial goals to "reflect the true makeup of the city", that comes from the federal government. In Jersey City it started with my class in 1981, 25 years ago and is still going on. The last test open to non-residents was in the late '70s.

    danzig...Atlantic City does the state thing, probably every few years. Check their residency requirements.
    They don't "indrectly" pertainto anything.

    They are directly related to racial issues. What is hysterical to me about these rules is that there are other cities (Fort Lee comes to mind) where the federal court ruled that the city COULD NOT restrict their hiring of municipal employees to local residents because there were not enough minorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWickman
    Len, I did. I ended up getting hired else were before the process even moved. I was attending John Jay at the time with an internship with FDNY. When I got the call I took it.

    We work 10s and 14s and I don't know how to attend core classes with my schedule. I have almost every fire science class credit. I just need some core classes.

    I have noticed that NJ is almost the only state left with ridiculous requirements on residency. This state has more problems with civil service exams then I have ever seen. Just attending the monthly state FMBA meetings and hear Gorty get up and talk about the DOP was painful. How long did it take for the Battalion chiefs test to get fixed. All of the class action lawsuits. There are some serious flaws in the process. I love my job and am very lucky to have it. I feel bad for the people on the street waiting.

    Just look at what I saw yesterday also:

    Paterson is hiring fire alarm dispatchers. Pay- $18,500 to $22,000
    Who can take that?
    You're being unfair.

    Why should the fire service be spared the same disaster that has befallen every other state agency? The DOP screws up every hiring process, not just the fire service.

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    Exclamation jcmc ems

    stay out of the gheto if you know nothing about it and the cities that you want are a little advanced for the country folk so watch you self

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    I agree.

    I rode jcmc ems for about 18 months (long time ago). I got 10 years of experience (22 jobs one 12-12 out of Greenville Hosp). What a bargain!

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